The P Word - Page 3 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 11-24-2004, 08:06 AM   #31
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,495
Local Time: 03:31 PM
okay, i think that works a bit better for me. it's the co-opting of the word "life" that i find difficult to wrap my head around. though i'd say i'm anti-abortion, but pro-choice -- don't like abortion, think it represents a societal failure on so many levels, but would march in the streets to help protect it's legality.
__________________

__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 11-24-2004, 08:25 AM   #32
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
Macfistowannabe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Ohio
Posts: 4,129
Local Time: 04:31 PM
I don't think anyone here on earth can possibly be entirely PRO-LIFE. This would mean against war at all times, always against the death penalty, always against abortion, I'll side with you on that.
__________________

__________________
Macfistowannabe is offline  
Old 11-24-2004, 08:30 AM   #33
pax
ONE
love, blood, life
 
pax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Ewen's new American home
Posts: 11,412
Local Time: 04:31 PM
That is a good point--I've always thought that the only true pro-lifers are anti-abortion, anti-death penalty total pacifists.
__________________
and you hunger for the time
time to heal, desire, time


Join Amnesty.
pax is offline  
Old 11-24-2004, 09:07 AM   #34
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
Macfistowannabe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Ohio
Posts: 4,129
Local Time: 04:31 PM
Which is most likely a very small percentage of the population.
__________________
Macfistowannabe is offline  
Old 11-24-2004, 09:10 AM   #35
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
Macfistowannabe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Ohio
Posts: 4,129
Local Time: 04:31 PM
But...

Just because the wealthy class might tend to vote republican, is no excuse why we can't help out the underpriveliged. No excuse. I may vote republican, but I solely have a weak spot in my heart that contributes to those who can't eat everyday.
__________________
Macfistowannabe is offline  
Old 11-24-2004, 09:23 AM   #36
Refugee
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin
Posts: 1,415
Local Time: 08:31 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
But...

Just because the wealthy class might tend to vote republican, is no excuse why we can't help out the underpriveliged. No excuse. I may vote republican, but I solely have a weak spot in my heart that contributes to those who can't eat everyday.
Thank you. I wish more people were like you in this regard.
__________________
Golightly Grrl is offline  
Old 11-24-2004, 09:31 AM   #37
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
Macfistowannabe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Ohio
Posts: 4,129
Local Time: 04:31 PM
I appreciate that. The only people who ask for money that I have anything against is the people who don't need it.

I found out shortly after sparing a woman a dollar that she was a prostitute who lived nearby the area. She claimed she was out of town! Worse than that, she said, "Is that all you got?"

The same night, the minute after, this man saw me giving change to this woman. He HAS A cup of fresh coffee in his hands, makes up a similar story, and asks me for a dollar or so. I knew it was bogus, but I "helped out" anyways.

These people leave a bad impression on beggers, because they choose to beg while other people have no other way around their misery. Perhaps this is why we aren't as poverty-oriented as we should be. Just a theory.
__________________
Macfistowannabe is offline  
Old 11-25-2004, 12:19 AM   #38
New Yorker
 
AvsGirl41's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Denver, Colorado
Posts: 2,948
Local Time: 01:31 PM
I think that's a good theory, actually. I think many people who truly need help probably don't ask for it. Often, the ones who do are the ones who are abusing the system, and the kindness of others.

My dad is a police officer, and he works in community relations. His job yesterday was to hand out 50 Thanksgiving baskets to needy families. He came home saying it was the most awful experience--not because he saw people suffering, but because the recipients were so greedy. One father asked "Is this all we get? I don't see any pie."

Apparently, there were also gift cards included so the people could go buy extra food, or whatever they wanted to spend it on. One woman said it "was only for $25.00, how am I supposed to get pie with that? Can I have some more? I have Christmas to buy for too, you know. And when can we sign up for Christmas Crusade for Children?"

Honestly. It's this kind of scene that ends up cutting aid so that people who are truly hungry don't receive assistance. As Victorian as it sounds, there's a definite division between the "worthy" poor and the unworthy.
__________________
AvsGirl41 is offline  
Old 11-25-2004, 07:13 AM   #39
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,495
Local Time: 03:31 PM
i wouldn't hold these "ungrateful" people to too high a standard. they have most likely been failed by the system in so many ways, that distinctions between "worthy" and "unworthy" poor are both unfair, and not something anyone who has never lived on the streets, hand-to-mouth, can really understand.
__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 11-25-2004, 12:09 PM   #40
New Yorker
 
AvsGirl41's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Denver, Colorado
Posts: 2,948
Local Time: 01:31 PM
These people are getting free food, free Christmas presents. How are *they* being failed by the system? They are the few benefiting from it. There are people in this country who live without food, electricity, plumbing--THOSE people are being failed by the system.

I have no respect for anyone who complains there isn't pie in their Thanksgiving meal when many in this country go without food, period.

And please do not judge on my life. When I was born, my parents were literally bankrupt. We were the "poor family" the church gave food to. My parents would have rather died than ask for anything, but they accepted it, and they fought their way back up. So yes, I do know a little something about it.

And while I don't believe in denying anyone help, there is a segment of our society who see no reason to help themselves. They are what casts a bad light on any kind of government aid and provide the rhetoric that leads to cuts in funding. It's the brutal truth.
__________________
AvsGirl41 is offline  
Old 11-25-2004, 02:59 PM   #41
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,495
Local Time: 03:31 PM
my main objection to your post was trying to place those in need into two camps: worthy and unworthy. i haven't rendered a single judgement on your life (though if you're posting on an internet forum, i think it's safe to assume that you won't be warming your hands on a trashcan fire tonight), nor can i compete with your defense of your anecdotal evidence you've used to make a broader point. sure, maybe these specific people who complain about pie are ungrateful bastards. i wasn't there, so i can't ague with that. but i do live in a city with some of the worst inner cities in the country, and believe me, in these places *everyone* has been failed by the system. from poor schools to lead in the drinking water to gang violence, getting free food and presents on one day a year is like spitting on a fire. it is a systemic problem, and requires thought an action that address the cause of the need, not the need itself. i would also argue that those who you claim "see no reason to help themselves" have also been failed by a system to which they see no hope in, yet are utterly dependent upon for their suvival. that attitude comes from somewhere, and has a long history behind it.
__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 11-26-2004, 07:31 AM   #42
Refugee
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin
Posts: 1,415
Local Time: 08:31 PM
In my experience, I have found that it's those who have the most who usually have the biggest sense of entitlement and want even more. I've done alot of volunteer work in my community. Many of it with families. A few years ago, I worked at a community center that offered free vision screening for lower income children. My job was to entertain the kids while they waited to see the eye doctor. I had so much fun with these kids (and I'm not usually a kid person). We played games, colored pictures, read stories, etc. These kids were delightful, and their parents (many of them single moms working low wage pink collar jobs) were so grateful that we were helping them out. They thanked us and made sure their kids thanked us as well.

A few months after, I worked a special Halloween party at a local children's museum. Two of my friends are directors at this museum and asked me to work at the arts and crafts table. This party was for the museum's members who for the most part are very well-to-do.

I was absolutely appalled by the behavior of these people. They didn't thank any of the volunteers or staff, referring to us as the "help." They let their kids run around screaming, nearly ruining the museum exhibits. Then they began to steal art supplies from my table. WTF? Surely, they can afford a box of Crayolas at Target, right? Actually, they just had a huge sense of entitlement and thought everything was theirs for the picking. I couldn't tell them to stop it because the museum relies on their membership money and these are exactly the type of people who would write a letter to the museum board trying to get certain people fired and I didn't want to put my friends' jobs on the line.

However, I refuse to ever volunteer for the museum ever again when it comes to dealing with the members.
__________________
Golightly Grrl is offline  
Old 11-26-2004, 10:05 AM   #43
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
Macfistowannabe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Ohio
Posts: 4,129
Local Time: 04:31 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by AvsGirl41
Honestly. It's this kind of scene that ends up cutting aid so that people who are truly hungry don't receive assistance. As Victorian as it sounds, there's a definite division between the "worthy" poor and the unworthy.
I know what you're trying to say, it probably didn't come out very clear to us. We should help the poor, and we shouldn't use the ungrateful beggers as an excuse not to. I think those who are ungrateful certainly leave a bad impression on beggers, but we shouldn't let that stop us from giving to the needy. Someone may be trying to survive, and I feel their pain. Not entirely obviously, very tiny way of looking at it in fact, but being hungry in general should help us relate to them in a way.

In a way, I can see why they're ungrateful. Look at rich people for example. Don't you often say to yourself, "I want that" when they have something you can't have? When the underpriviliged see us with a meal, that's how they feel. The difference is that they feel physical pain, and we're usually being materialistic when we want something we can't have.
__________________

__________________
Macfistowannabe is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:31 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com