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Old 04-18-2005, 11:36 AM   #16
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Please explain this to me...how are the poor here going to be affected?
Perhaps the assumption is that if 1% of the US budget is diverted to Africa, it will be taken from programs benefitting the poor here in the US.
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Old 04-18-2005, 11:38 AM   #17
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Originally posted by nickypiemcg


To be honest I disagree. Unfortunately in our capitalist society money talks and one way or another ONE is about money. Raising concern is fine but concern doesn't save lives whereas money (sometimes!) can. Whether it anti-retroviral drugs, debt relief or fairer trade the answer is always in dollars. Someone has to pay, it's sad but true.
I respectfully disagree. The way I understand it, the ONE campaign is simply to get people to pledge their support for the cause. What that means is pressuring the government and voting like you care. Bono said the ONE campaign right now is after one million Americans. Say they did reach one million Americans and got everyone to give $10 - that's only ten million dollars. There's no way this campaign is about money. Besides, you can give all you want, but that's not going get anywhere with regards to the real issue - the corrupt governments and structural issues that are inflating debt and poverty. If you honestly believe that if one million Americans and all of the celebrities attached to the ONE campaign simply donated money, I'd like to see your explaination, economically, for how this would solve the problems.
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Old 04-18-2005, 12:15 PM   #18
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End corporate welfare and you've likely got enough money for Bush to live up to his promises to Africa.
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Old 04-18-2005, 12:37 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Please explain this to me...how are the poor here going to be affected?

Because essentially they advocate takin 1% of the American budget out of the domestic economy. The country will then be slightly worse off. Even with fairer trade items that are imported are going to end up costing more. Although this effect everyone to some extent ultimately the less well off people of The United States will suffer more of a material loss.
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Old 04-18-2005, 12:44 PM   #20
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Originally posted by LivLuvAndBootlegMusic


I respectfully disagree. The way I understand it, the ONE campaign is simply to get people to pledge their support for the cause. What that means is pressuring the government and voting like you care. Bono said the ONE campaign right now is after one million Americans. Say they did reach one million Americans and got everyone to give $10 - that's only ten million dollars. There's no way this campaign is about money. Besides, you can give all you want, but that's not going get anywhere with regards to the real issue - the corrupt governments and structural issues that are inflating debt and poverty. If you honestly believe that if one million Americans and all of the celebrities attached to the ONE campaign simply donated money, I'd like to see your explaination, economically, for how this would solve the problems.
Not all the governments in Africa are corrupt (a common misconception). I still believe that the answer will come down to money, however indirect. Whether it is money to pay for sex education or to pay for better farming methods or better infastructure. Does the ONE campaign mention that alot of money has been laundered through banks in Geneva and London? Just wondering? I do support the ONE campaign. Just because I see some hypocritial aspects does not mean I don't support the campaign as a whole.
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Old 04-18-2005, 01:22 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by nickypiemcg


Not all the governments in Africa are corrupt (a common misconception). I still believe that the answer will come down to money, however indirect. Whether it is money to pay for sex education or to pay for better farming methods or better infastructure. Does the ONE campaign mention that alot of money has been laundered through banks in Geneva and London? Just wondering? I do support the ONE campaign. Just because I see some hypocritial aspects does not mean I don't support the campaign as a whole.
Do you think donating money would be more effective than the US and other first world nations cancelling most or all of Africa's debt?
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Old 04-18-2005, 01:29 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by nickypiemcg



Because essentially they advocate takin 1% of the American budget out of the domestic economy. The country will then be slightly worse off. Even with fairer trade items that are imported are going to end up costing more. Although this effect everyone to some extent ultimately the less well off people of The United States will suffer more of a material loss.
See my comment above ... if we eliminate tax breaks for the wealthiest people in our country as well as for corporations, I am sure the 1% would be a piece of cake and not put domestic programs and services at risk. Heck, we might even have leftover money to put into improving domestic programs and services.
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Old 04-18-2005, 01:51 PM   #23
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Originally posted by LivLuvAndBootlegMusic


Do you think donating money would be more effective than the US and other first world nations cancelling most or all of Africa's debt?

Cancelling debt is essentially donating money.
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Old 04-18-2005, 01:53 PM   #24
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Originally posted by JessicaAnn


See my comment above ... if we eliminate tax breaks for the wealthiest people in our country as well as for corporations, I am sure the 1% would be a piece of cake and not put domestic programs and services at risk. Heck, we might even have leftover money to put into improving domestic programs and services.
I hear what you're saying but that money still leaves the economy. The wealthiest people will have less money to spend as will the corporations and that loss will filter down to the masses. Hell, I'm no economist.
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Old 04-18-2005, 01:58 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by nickypiemcg



Because essentially they advocate takin 1% of the American budget out of the domestic economy. The country will then be slightly worse off. Even with fairer trade items that are imported are going to end up costing more. Although this effect everyone to some extent ultimately the less well off people of The United States will suffer more of a material loss.
I think that's a pretty big assumption.

Wonder how much is being used right now to fund the war...

A reallocation is not asking for someone's money. Like someone has already said the money's been promised, just so far it's an empty promise.

I think you're way off on this one.
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Old 04-18-2005, 02:29 PM   #26
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i'm currently reading 'the end of poverty' by jeffrey sachs, and it's about this exact same debate. he argues that if the rich (have yacht) nations would make good on their pledges of international aid, and drop the debt for the poorest nations, we would be able to end extreme poverty on the planet within 20 years. i'm no economist, either, but his argument is compelling, not to mention enormously inspiring and empowering.

given the billions spent on corporate canoodling and the war against terrorism, it's a small investment that will pay off for every person on the planet.

highly recommended book.
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Old 04-18-2005, 04:02 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by nickypiemcg


Cancelling debt is essentially donating money.
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Old 04-18-2005, 07:02 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by nickypiemcg


I hear what you're saying but that money still leaves the economy. The wealthiest people will have less money to spend as will the corporations and that loss will filter down to the masses. Hell, I'm no economist.
Money might leave the economy, but when the poorer countries can afford to buy things they will import things from America and we will gain money there.
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Old 04-18-2005, 07:36 PM   #29
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Hopefully this article will help to clarify a few things in this discussion:



Posted: 4/15/05
2005 pivotal in efforts to cut global poverty
By Kevin Eckstrom

Religion News Service

WASHINGTON (RNS)--One-third of the way into the 15-year U.N. program aimed at cutting global poverty by 50 percent, church leaders and activists say progress so far has been abysmal, and 2005 is a make-or-break year for the program.

The eight-prong Millennium Develop-ment Goals will fail unless governments commit the resources to achieve them, the Anglican archbishop of South Africa said recently.

"Globalization has accorded this world so much prosperity and progress, it is not only sinful but also morally wrong that there are people who go hungry every day," said Archbishop Njongonkulu Ndungane.

Supporters say unless efforts are refocused at three key meetings this year, the world will fail to keep promises made in 2000 to combat poverty, hunger, lack of education, child and maternal mortality rates and HIV/AIDS.

Sparked by the Jubilee campaign in 2000 that helped erase crushing debt loads owed by poor Third World countries, religious groups from across the spectrum have shown unprecedented unity in fighting global poverty.

The One Campaign, for example, brought together a dozen Christian and secular relief groups to keep focus on the millennium goals. Last year, Ndungane helped inaugurate the Micah Challenge, a coalition of 260 nonprofit aid groups with the same goal.

Activists worry, however, that the world's attention span is fading.

Three meetings this year--the annual summit of G-8 nations in Scotland; a U.N. summit on the millennium goals next fall; and a December World Trade Organization meeting in Hong Kong--may determine the future of the initiative.

Last year, U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan said the effort needs a "quantum leap" in order to meet its goals. David Beckmann, president of Bread for the World, said it's time for the United States and others to "get serious about getting the job done."

A 2004 U.N. progress report found "no change" in tackling poverty and hunger in sub-Saharan Africa and "lagging progress" in South Asia. However, there was some success in northern Africa, Southeast Asia, Latin America and central Asia.

Tom Hart, director of government relations for DATA, the development advocacy agency founded by Bono, of the musical group U2, and part of the One Campaign, said the world has made measured progress on debt relief and efforts to combat the AIDS pandemic, but more needs to be done.

"The progress is good, and in a sense we can see a roadmap for how Africa can meet its goals, but we need to kick it up a gear," he said.

Activists are looking to Washington to take the lead and are watching two key programs as a barometer for America's own commitments:

Millennium Challenge Accounts--President Bush's plan to commit $5 billion of U.S. aid by 2006 for developing countries that meet rigorous criteria, has been underfunded. So far, the program has received about $2.5 billion, and the White House has asked for $3 billion next year and hopes to reach $5 billion by 2007.

Global AIDS Relief--Bush surprised Congress in 2003 with a request for $15 billion over 10 years to fight HIV and AIDS around the world. So far, the program has gotten a little more than $5 billion from Congress, and Bush has asked for $3.2 billion in 2006.

What concerns activists is what happens after Bush spends $15 billion on AIDS or reaches the $5 billion goal for development next year.

Frank Griswold, the presiding bishop of the Episcopal Church, who accompanied Ndungane to Washington, said God and the world will judge America on how it treats the poor.

"As a nation that freely uses religious language in its political rhetoric, we better take that language seriously and ask ourselves what it means to be a country that lives ... for the sake of the world, not just our own self-interest," he said.



http://www.baptiststandard.com/postn...splay&pid=3235


There is a lot more that I have to say (as I am an active volunteer for The ONE Campaign and a lifelong - almost 25 years - activist for Africa) but I have a limited amount of time tonite.

I will post my thoughts about this discussion tomorrow night.

I NEED SOMETHING OTHER....
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Old 04-18-2005, 08:27 PM   #30
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Jamila, thanks for sharing the article!
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