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Old 07-24-2007, 11:31 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally posted by anitram

vote for a third-party candidate (sucks that you guys never actually have a viable one).


look out for Bloomberg. and Ron Paul.
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Old 07-24-2007, 11:34 AM   #62
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Originally posted by joyfulgirl
We need a heavy,


and right now, for the Dems, HRC is that heavy. she really is emminently qualified. i still fear what her inherent divisiveness would do to the country, which isn't entirely her fault, but i'm confident she'd be a very able executive and do much to repair our international reputation.

i'd be very interested to see a Rudy vs. HRC debate. i'm guessing she'd clean his clock and make him look like the nasty bastard he really is.

now, granted, you need a nasty bastard to clean up Manhattan and to break the Mafia. i'm just not sure that kind of gunslinging is going to go over so well with the rest of the world.
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Old 07-24-2007, 11:37 AM   #63
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^ Again, agree completely.
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Old 07-24-2007, 11:48 AM   #64
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Originally posted by Irvine511
i'm just not sure that kind of gunslinging is going to go over so well with the rest of the world.
I'm surprised that you're even unsure.

The rest of the (civilized) world simply does not operate on cowboy justice. 8 years of Giuliani after 8 years of Bush would irreparably damage the American reputation, and it's already in the shitter as it is.
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Old 07-24-2007, 11:55 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511




i'd be very interested to see a Rudy vs. HRC debate. i'm guessing she'd clean his clock and make him look like the nasty bastard he really is.
I'd pay good money to see that debate.
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Old 07-24-2007, 12:19 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally posted by anitram


I'm surprised that you're even unsure.

The rest of the (civilized) world simply does not operate on cowboy justice. 8 years of Giuliani after 8 years of Bush would irreparably damage the American reputation, and it's already in the shitter as it is.


Giuliani isn't an idiot, though.
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Old 07-24-2007, 01:13 PM   #67
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Originally posted by Irvine511

Giuliani isn't an idiot, though.
But he's also considerably less likeable than Bush, who for all his idiocy is at least somewhat personable. And he comes across as completely authoritarian and much more aggressive than Bush. The fact that he's not an idiot would actually help him less, because he seems more of a Cheney than a Bush, and compare their approval ratings around the world.
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Old 07-24-2007, 01:36 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally posted by anitram


But he's also considerably less likeable than Bush, who for all his idiocy is at least somewhat personable. And he comes across as completely authoritarian and much more aggressive than Bush. The fact that he's not an idiot would actually help him less, because he seems more of a Cheney than a Bush, and compare their approval ratings around the world.


that's interesting, especially the Cheney comparison. Cheney's a madman, but he's not an idiot. i would fear for my civil liberties should Giuliani take over. yours too.
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Old 07-24-2007, 01:37 PM   #69
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So it seems it's not possible to download the debate anywhere, right? Would have liked to check it out but I missed it. I just watched part of the last one and I must say I am quite impressed with the quality of the candidates... I haven't really been following but I always kind of favored Obama... But after seeing all of them speak I must say, Hillary rocks! She is really solid, I would definately vote for her (but who cares since I'm Canadian
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Old 07-24-2007, 03:49 PM   #70
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Concerning Kucinich, I could list easily 10 issues that he is far from the mainstream of either party. The front-runners and the second-tier candidates all have a pretty much vanilla platform, the seperations are variable between them but I think it's fair to say there isn't a dimes worth of difference between Clinton, Obama, Edwards and Dodd, Biden and Richardson.

The reasons why the others poll higher, again are variable, my point is the reason the last group, Kucinich and the rest of the fringees take positions too far from anything remotely electable.

Ross Perot won 20% of the vote and really had some momentum for a 3rd party candidate because of a few issues, he also had the baggage of some lame-brain ideas like a dollar gas tax that made a ton of people bail on him at the surface.

No matter what Kucinich may be spot on about, I personally agree with the abolition of NAFTA for one issue (among others) but for everyone of those issues that might resonate with possibly 25-30% (or whatever it would take to make a serious run), for everyone of those issues, he's off talking about .....

aboloshing the death penalty, which maybe the majority of Americans do not support, he's for decriminilization of marijuanna which is also out in the fringes, he wants to impeach Dick Cheney which would do nothing but galvanize the opposition, he wants to repeal the Patriot Act, which would be a HUGE weight around his neck in the general election, he supports amnesty for illegal immigrants, another losing issue even for a Dem.

He wants to cancel the tax cuts for the rich, there are rich Dems as well ya know? He wants to withdraw from Iraq yesterday, which is not a sensible position, even the most ardent of the anti-war crowd should know it would take a long long time to withdraw and some type of force will be needed if only for P.R. value, he continues to say the war in Iraq was based on a stack of lies which offends many people, even Dems, moreso military families of which there are Dems as well. He blasts others like Biden who refuse to de-defund the troops from armor that will protect them immensely, a huge loser of an issue there.

Consider all of the above in a general election sense.

Look, I'm not saying I disagree with him on all this and I don't pretend that there aren't others running for the Dem nomination who may believe some of the same things , but he has simply too much baggage and not enough vanilla in addition to whatever else.

Dodd and Biden are the most qualified yet don't poll higher than 5th in ANY poll. The biggest quality any of these people can have is electability. Kucinich has none.
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Old 07-24-2007, 08:32 PM   #71
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I thought Hilary came off pretty well, Obama didn't do much for me. Neither did Biden, Richardson. Liked Gravel (follow the money, and yes, the deaths in Vietnam were in vain.War created for profit, which this administration has perfected to an art form). I'm at the point now that I think we need someone like him or Kucinich if we want anything to change soon. And I think the planet is at the critical point that something needs to be done soon or humanity's future is in serious doubt. Not for any of us, but if we care about our children's children...........

Why is it so hard for us to vote for a bit of a kook. Gravel strikes me as a Mr Smith Goes to Washington type. Willing to get in your face and say what he thinks. Something Kerry wouldn't do in '04. And the republicans are this close to getting a bible thumping Adolf Hitler type in, because they have become an extremely dangerous party. They're like the Jamaican bobsled team, it doesn't take much to get on that sled. And once your in, anything can happen. Getting elected by invoking fear. If we are so scared of Al Queda that we would elect hateful people like Cheney, I'm sorry, the 'war' on terrorism is already lost.

Sorry 'bout the rant. Couldn't stop myself.

Go democrats!
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Old 07-24-2007, 08:34 PM   #72
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Old 07-25-2007, 01:44 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally posted by Inner El Guapo
Concerning Kucinich, I could list easily 10 issues that he is far from the mainstream of either party. The front-runners and the second-tier candidates all have a pretty much vanilla platform, the seperations are variable between them but I think it's fair to say there isn't a dimes worth of difference between Clinton, Obama, Edwards and Dodd, Biden and Richardson.

The reasons why the others poll higher, again are variable, my point is the reason the last group, Kucinich and the rest of the fringees take positions too far from anything remotely electable.

Ross Perot won 20% of the vote and really had some momentum for a 3rd party candidate because of a few issues, he also had the baggage of some lame-brain ideas like a dollar gas tax that made a ton of people bail on him at the surface.

No matter what Kucinich may be spot on about, I personally agree with the abolition of NAFTA for one issue (among others) but for everyone of those issues that might resonate with possibly 25-30% (or whatever it would take to make a serious run), for everyone of those issues, he's off talking about .....

aboloshing the death penalty, which maybe the majority of Americans do not support, he's for decriminilization of marijuanna which is also out in the fringes, he wants to impeach Dick Cheney which would do nothing but galvanize the opposition, he wants to repeal the Patriot Act, which would be a HUGE weight around his neck in the general election, he supports amnesty for illegal immigrants, another losing issue even for a Dem.

He wants to cancel the tax cuts for the rich, there are rich Dems as well ya know? He wants to withdraw from Iraq yesterday, which is not a sensible position, even the most ardent of the anti-war crowd should know it would take a long long time to withdraw and some type of force will be needed if only for P.R. value, he continues to say the war in Iraq was based on a stack of lies which offends many people, even Dems, moreso military families of which there are Dems as well. He blasts others like Biden who refuse to de-defund the troops from armor that will protect them immensely, a huge loser of an issue there.

Consider all of the above in a general election sense.

Look, I'm not saying I disagree with him on all this and I don't pretend that there aren't others running for the Dem nomination who may believe some of the same things , but he has simply too much baggage and not enough vanilla in addition to whatever else.

Dodd and Biden are the most qualified yet don't poll higher than 5th in ANY poll. The biggest quality any of these people can have is electability. Kucinich has none.
But...I've come across a lot of people who are in support of those issues. I'm just seeing that politics is a game, and the frontrunners are there to try and win as many fans from the moderates and the opposite party as possible. Therefore they have these unappealing lukewarm platforms that provide us with no real change or sense of progress. I'm convinced that they sit at home and practice performing their soundbytes in front of a mirror moreso than coming up with real strategies and real changes.

It is clear to me that there are many people who want this sort of change. We're ready for it. But I think some people are relutcant to actually move forward with it and choose somebody who does represent that change, and the hesitation I think comes from this assumption that we need to be moderate in order to win the most votes. Which...I can see the logic behind it. I just feel like we are beyond that point now. That strategy clearly didn't work for the previous election. I think Americans are hungry for change. They're tired of the crap.

As for Kucinich withdrawing from Iraq, as I've said countless times in this forum, he doesn't want to simply withdrawl. He has a very efficient looking 12 step plan that while involves troop withdrawl, it also involves getting support from the international community, and from Iraq itself to help clean up the mess we've made.

As for abolishing the death penalty, I think the death penalty is losing it's support. And this Troy Davis case has really opened up some eyes and I feel like we are breaking some ground here. As for legalising pot...not that I'm saying EVERYBODY does it, but many people do. And I'm sure if those that did, or those who supported it for medical purposes voted in favor, we'd see a surprising majority. Besides, is that really such a bad thing? I say we legalize it, and tax the bitch. HA!
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Old 07-26-2007, 11:10 AM   #74
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Re: The official YouTube debate thread...

Quote:
Originally posted by U2democrat
This could get interesting. If I were a candidate I'd be scared to death, there's no telling what kind of questions will be put out there.
Well, apparently not that interesting. Watching the re-run of it, I was struck by how easily each candidate took each question and scooped it up back into their regular stump speech material within a couple seconds.
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Old 07-26-2007, 11:23 AM   #75
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I wish someone had asked about Blackwater. Maybe they're saving that one for the Republicans.
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