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Old 11-12-2006, 12:31 PM   #421
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30 October 2006

Thinking Like A Terrorist

By Gwynne Dyer

What are they thinking, those terrorists who hate America's values,
as the United States prepares to vote in the mid-term Congressional
elections? Do they think that a terrorist bomb somewhere in the United
States in the next few days would drive Americans back into President
Bush's arms, or discredit his strategies further? And which result would
they prefer: do they want the Republicans to lose control of Congress or
not?

To discuss these questions sensibly, you must first accept that
terrorists are not just hate-filled crazies. They are people with
political goals and rational (though vicious) strategies for achieving
them. Military officers and intelligence experts know this -- they even
study the strategy and tactics of terrorism in the staff colleges -- but it
is not often recognised in the public debate. So lay your prejudices aside
for a moment, and try to think like a terrorist.

Happily, a document has come into my hands that will help us to
figure out their strategy. True, it reads like a script written for an
amateur dramatic society, but it comes from one of the Western intelligence
agencies that certified the existence of weapons of mass destruction in
Iraq, so there can be little doubt about its authenticity. I have taken
the liberty of translating it into English.

A heavily guarded compound in Waziristan. Three bearded men in robes enter
the courtyard.

Osama bin Laden (for it is he): So do we blow something up in America
before the election this time, or not? We skipped 2002 and 2004. Surely it
wouldn't hurt to do something this time.

First Henchman: Well, I don't know, boss. Not blowing more stuff up in
America has worked for us so far. Bush got the credit for keeping the
terrorists away, and that gave him the freedom to invade Iraq, and so the
Americans never put enough troops into Afghanistan, and now they're losing
both wars. I say leave him alone. It's coming along just fine.

Second Henchman: Besides, we don't really have....

OBL (interrupting): I bought that argument in 2002, and I bought it again
in 2004, but now it's different. Bush will be in power until 2008 no
matter how Americans vote, so the US soldiers will still be pinned down in
Iraq until then anyway. He's not going to pull them out. And he's not
going to send a lot more troops to Afghanistan, either, no matter who
controls Congress, so our Taliban friends will be all right. We have
nothing to lose. Let's blow something up. It will humiliate the Americans
and make us look good.

Second Henchman: That's all very well, but...

First Henchman (interrupting): You know, I think the boss is right. It
can't hurt now. Activate the sleeper cells in America, and have them blow
up a few car bombs.

Second Henchman: Will you stop talking and listen for a minute! We don't
have any sleeper cells in America. We never did. We had to bring the 9/11
guys in from abroad, and they're all dead. This whole discussion is
pointless, and furthermore... [At this point the transcript ends]

On second thought, I do wonder if this document is entirely
genuine. There's something about the style that doesn't sound quite right.
But the logic is exactly right: this is how terrorists think.

The 9/11 attacks on the United States were meant to provoke an
American military response. The point was to lure Washington into invading
Afghanistan (where Bin Laden's bases were), so that they would become
trapped in another long guerilla war like the one he and his colleagues had
waged (with US support) against the Soviet invaders of Afghanistan in the
1980s. The images from such a war, of high-tech American forces smashing
Afghan villages and families, would reverberate across the Muslim world and
radicalise so many people that the Islamist revolutions Bin Laden dreamed
of would at last become possible.

George W. Bush dodged that bullet by overthrowing the Taliban
regime without causing vast destruction in Afghanistan (it was done almost
entirely by American special forces and their local allies), so there was
no guerilla war there at first. Bin Laden's gamble had failed. But then
Bush invaded Iraq, providing Arab extremists with the guerilla war they
wanted and images of horror in profusion. He even abandoned most of the
effort to rebuild Afghanistan in order to concentrate on Iraq, so the
Taliban got the chance to recover there too.

That's were we are now, and Osama Bin Laden really has not the
least incentive to try to discredit President Bush with the American
electorate by carrying out further terrorist attacks. The project is on
track, and the Americans will be largely gone from the Middle East in a few
years anyway.

And besides, there are no sleeper cells in America. There never
were.
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Old 11-12-2006, 12:33 PM   #422
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Quote:
Originally posted by maycocksean

The "pro-life" side assumes the embryo/fetus is a living human being and likes to paint the opposition as supporting murder.
(What they either don't know, or don't want to admitt is that the other side is surely not advocating murder--they are not convinced that the embryo or fetus can be considered a living human being. Even some of the posts supporting the pro-choice POV on this thread make this clear).
Well heck, excuse me for calling the killing of babies "murder". Perhaps it would make you feel better if I used the more generic and sterile term "termination of pregnancy".

In the end, it still means the same thing. An innocent human life is ended. How can anyone look at a detailed fetal development timeline, maycocksean, seeing how early vital systems and organs are developed in a fetus, and still say that fetus is not a human life?

Quote:
Originally posted by maycocksean
If the pro-lifers want to change people's minds they've got to start focusing on convincing pro-choicers that they are taking human life, rather than just labeling them "baby killers".
If you don't think I do that, you have not been paying attention to me at all in reference to this subject. Almost every time I argue against abortion, I tell people to have a look at a detailed fetal development timeline to see that the fetus is a human life. I have also on occasions pointed out that the vast majority of embryologists say that human life begins at conception, and have even quoted some of them.
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Old 11-12-2006, 12:46 PM   #423
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The ontogeny of a most chordates is the same during most of the embryo's early development, it is pretty damn generic at that stage.
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Old 11-12-2006, 12:50 PM   #424
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonosSaint

the group voiced its support for the reelection of President Bush, who, according to the statement, "deals with matters by force rather than with wisdom."

http://mediamatters.org/items/200407090004


The statement said Abu Hafs al-Masri needs what it called Bush's "idiocy and religious fanaticism" because they would "wake up" the Islamic world.

Parts of the statement were released Wednesday night by the editor of another London-based Arabic newspaper, Al Hayat. The editor read parts of the statement to The Associated Press in Cairo.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,114489,00.html

http://www.talkleft.com/story/2006/10/29/142954/98
Good research, but that's now what I asked for.

Look at this declaration he used:

"We are very keen that Bush does not lose the upcoming elections."

The key phrase is "upcoming elections". This terrorist wanted to influence voters, alright, but in the exact opposite way in which he stated. Do you think that this terrorist would think that Americans would vote for the candidate his terrorist organization endorsed? No, of course not. He knows that Americans hate terrorists as much as they hate America. This man didn't want Bush as President; if he had, he would have kept his mouth shut, not publicly supported him.
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Old 11-12-2006, 12:51 PM   #425
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


One of my dearest friends, someone who use to post here, her sister had to have a late term abortion to save her life. It's the hardest thing she's ever had to deal with. I by no means would ever relate anything satanic about her she's one of the closest things to God I know on this planet.
Was it a partial birth aborion?
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Old 11-12-2006, 01:51 PM   #426
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Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


Good research, but that's now what I asked for.

Look at this declaration he used:

"We are very keen that Bush does not lose the upcoming elections."

The key phrase is "upcoming elections". This terrorist wanted to influence voters, alright, but in the exact opposite way in which he stated. Do you think that this terrorist would think that Americans would vote for the candidate his terrorist organization endorsed? No, of course not. He knows that Americans hate terrorists as much as they hate America. This man didn't want Bush as President; if he had, he would have kept his mouth shut, not publicly supported him.
I didn't vote according to what the terrorists wanted, I voted for the betterment of my country.
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Old 11-12-2006, 02:00 PM   #427
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Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


The key phrase is "upcoming elections". This terrorist wanted to influence voters, alright, but in the exact opposite way in which he stated. Do you think that this terrorist would think that Americans would vote for the candidate his terrorist organization endorsed? No, of course not. He knows that Americans hate terrorists as much as they hate America. This man didn't want Bush as President; if he had, he would have kept his mouth shut, not publicly supported him.
You asked for statements from terrorists. I am absolutely aware that you asked for post election statements. Couldn't find any, so I don't know whether they are out there or not.

Let's see, we should believe that the terrorists are speaking the absolute truth when it suits your ideology and are absolutely lying when they serve the other's ideology. Personally, I don't believe them one way or another. There is fundamentally no difference in the way they hedge their bets. Either way they declare a win. They are politicians after all. With the possible exception of the Fox devotees, nobody was voting on what the terrorists were saying. Like any good politician, the terrorist seeks to influence perception. Now whether you are wrong or right in how the terrorists are thinking (also assuming they are all lockstep in thought with one another), perception has yet to be determined to be reality.
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Old 11-12-2006, 02:03 PM   #428
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I didn't vote the straight Democratic ticket because the terrorists were supporting them. I voted them because I wanted new leadership in this country.
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Old 11-12-2006, 03:25 PM   #429
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A response to several pages back where somebody said that raising the min. wage is bad because companies won't hire as many people:

Yeah, you took intro micro in college so you think you know better than people who spend their careers studying this. Let's start with the fact that raising the minimum wage will allow some people to work only 2 jobs insstead of 3, or only 1 instead of 2, thus making it less necessary for companies to hire more people. Couple this with health care reform and the point becomes stronger. Further, if you look at it from a more complex perspective, in some sectors raising the min wage (and thus people cutting back on the hours they work) will raise productivity, which is advantageous to companies and will mean they are getting their money's worth.
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Old 11-12-2006, 03:54 PM   #430
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Quote:
Originally posted by Varitek
A response to several pages back where somebody said that raising the min. wage is bad because companies won't hire as many people:

Yeah, you took intro micro in college so you think you know better than people who spend their careers studying this. Let's start with the fact that raising the minimum wage will allow some people to work only 2 jobs insstead of 3, or only 1 instead of 2, thus making it less necessary for companies to hire more people. Couple this with health care reform and the point becomes stronger. Further, if you look at it from a more complex perspective, in some sectors raising the min wage (and thus people cutting back on the hours they work) will raise productivity, which is advantageous to companies and will mean they are getting their money's worth.
So I have another sister in low-wage reform!!

You addressed a bit of what I talked about before, and then added more to it. That's so awesome! I've studied it quite a bit myself. I'm hoping that Webb follows through on his promise to raise it.
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Old 11-12-2006, 04:03 PM   #431
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Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


I don't deny that he insulted Bush. I would expect no less of him. These terrorists have shown us in the past how cocky they are, even at times when they were facing immenint catastrophe - remember the "Minister Of Disinformation" who kept insisting that the allies weren't anywhere close to Baghdad and were losing, even as the walls around him were falling down?



Terrorists do not love America, they hate America, and yet he specifically congratulated the American People on how they voted in the elections. Do you think this congration was because he actually felt any good will or empathy toward the United States? No, of course not! In that same article, he vowed to burn down the White House. If he considered Bush and the Republicans a failure in the war on terror, he would want them to remain in office. He wouldn't be rejoicing that they had been replaced.
I love this post. You recognise the cockiness and disinformation in the first part of the post but then you take their word when it suits your agenda.
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Old 11-12-2006, 04:06 PM   #432
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Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


Was it a partial birth aborion?
Partial birth is a non-medical term. I don't know the exact procedure that was used, it's not exactly something you ask someone in that scenario.
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Old 11-12-2006, 04:25 PM   #433
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Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


No of course we won't. Why would we apologize to the world? Most of the world loves the election results. Especially the terrorists.


Listen up 8ui.......................

I don't know how old you are, where you are, and where your various friends & families hail from/live now..............


I AM a born & bred New Yorker. I spent/spend alot of time in Lower Manhattan, for fun & work. Includinga year in the World Trade Towers - South#2 tower yrs before The Atrocity.

On the 73rd floor facing the plaza there in the NorthEast Corner office. [WHAT A gorgoeus 50 mile or more view ~ like being on a little MOUNTAIN//[I've breen in the <USA> Rockies]. The windows went from below the floor to right up past the ceiling.You could look RIGHT DOWN to the central Plaza below-- kind of like standing right at the edge of the glass part of the floor in the big tower in Toronto/Canada.

SO.......between real expereince, the photos/tv footage and my VERY vivid imagination ......... I pretty much KNOW what those people saw in the higher parts of the south tower when they were looking down at the pLAZA after the 1ST PLANE HIT.

I SAW the pulverized cloud of plastic, concrete & metal & bone of the second tower collaspe rising over the buildings FROM about a mile or 2 further away.
LAter in the day that very same cloud and it further part streamed hight above ...which i could see OUT MY livingroom WINDOW.

I SAW my CITY part of it in ruins, MY PEOPLE in ANqUISH/injury & death..

BeTWEEN my 2 closest circles we had TWO DIRECT near-misses that day, one whom WOUld have BEEN dead....b/c they were up on the north tower 100 something floor and had too strong asthma to be able get down the stairs.
One of my dear sister's dearest adult friends. ANDanOTHER stopped for extra coffee.

If the 3rd other one had been in the tower that day[ there off & on} they could have died.A person very close to my mom...MY mom could have had a secere trauma attack over that, possible disability because of the shock/grief.

I cant even finish becAuase my library comp is going to log me out

I did something i normally don't do--- spent the extra money to get a guest pass to library to log on again & finish my post.........

SO.............DON'T. You. Question. MY. anger at the Terorists.


AMERICAN/
PROUD LIBERAL DEMOCRAT.
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Old 11-12-2006, 05:58 PM   #434
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^ Good post. Just because we're liberal doesn't mean we aren't angry as all hell at the terrorists just like the rest of the country (and maybe more for people like Dazzledbylight). And just because we don't believe in human rights violations doesn't mean we're soft on terrorism.

Quote:
Originally posted by redhotswami


So I have another sister in low-wage reform!!

You addressed a bit of what I talked about before, and then added more to it. That's so awesome! I've studied it quite a bit myself. I'm hoping that Webb follows through on his promise to raise it.
Yeah it's in the dem's first 100 hours plan. Hopefully it'll go through finally. Of course I live in a state where the min wage is 8.25 and I go :shock: when I think about a 4.25 or whatever it is nationally, even though I know costs of living are different.
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Old 11-12-2006, 07:12 PM   #435
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Thanks for your post dazzled...anyone suggesting that Dems are terrorist appeasers makes me sick to my stomach.

Democrats are AMERICANS first, Democrats second. They would never EVER want or allow another attack. We ALL lost loved ones on 9-11, and we ALL continue to lose loved ones overseas, whether they're "red" or "blue".

Anyone who believes the terrorists are better off with Dems in power is falling into the terrorists' trap, they are dividing us. I for one think the terrorists should be terrified with Dems OR Republicans in power. Got it? Good.
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