The official Election Day 2006 thread! - Page 25 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 11-09-2006, 05:48 PM   #361
Blue Crack Supplier
 
dazzledbylight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: in the sound dancing - w Bono & Edge :D
Posts: 33,000
Local Time: 06:42 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


What? No mention of Clinton's ATF, which spear-headed the whole David Koresh fiasco, which ended in the deaths of dozens of innocent men, women and children?

Or how about Reno authorizing the feds' illegal armed entry of the house of Elian Gonzales on Easter weekend, pointing a gun in the child's face, and taking him crying and screaming away from the only people he knew in the entire USA - no mention of that?

Or how about Clinton sending troops to Somalia on a "peace-keeping" mission, not allowing them to fire back. How about those 12 soldiers that were killed there and dragged through the streets. How about the fact that Clinton did not retaliate for that?

You're looking at the Clinton Admin through Rose-colored glasses; there's no doubt about that.
I was talking about one of the POSITIVE Action that President Clinton did.......there's stuff I DEF disagreed about. in his actions over the years.
I was highing a postive contrast between how CLINTON"s FEMA probably would have handled Huricaine Katrina, NOT debating his negatives - since that wasn't the point of my particular conversation. to Butterscotch.
__________________

__________________
dazzledbylight is offline  
Old 11-09-2006, 09:01 PM   #362
Blue Crack Addict
 
U2democrat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: England by way of 'Murica.
Posts: 22,140
Local Time: 11:42 PM
Jim Webb is on Larry King Live right now!!!!!!!!!!
__________________

__________________
U2democrat is offline  
Old 11-09-2006, 09:19 PM   #363
War Child
 
najeena's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: an island paradise
Posts: 995
Local Time: 11:42 PM
It is indeed a beautiful day. Congratulations to all who gave their time, money and enthusiasm to secure this victory. As my friend in Italy said, "the world breathes easier tonight".
__________________
najeena is offline  
Old 11-09-2006, 09:52 PM   #364
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
BonosSaint's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,566
Local Time: 07:42 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by I'm Ready


thanks
You're welcome. Reading over my post I made some dumb mistakes like the President will have to work with the President, but you got the gist.

It was an ungodly hour of the morning.
__________________
BonosSaint is offline  
Old 11-09-2006, 10:50 PM   #365
Blue Crack Addict
 
anitram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 16,272
Local Time: 06:42 PM
80s do you actually believe it was in the best interest of Elian Gonzalez, the child, to be taken away from his immediate family?

I grew up in a Communist state. Parents there loved their children just as much. And I found it loathsome to suggest that he should be taken from his own father, who loved him and provided him with a loving home, in the name of political ideology. What a terrifying concept.
__________________
anitram is online now  
Old 11-09-2006, 11:03 PM   #366
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
80sU2isBest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 4,970
Local Time: 06:42 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by anitram
80s do you actually believe it was in the best interest of Elian Gonzalez, the child, to be taken away from his immediate family?

I grew up in a Communist state. Parents there loved their children just as much. And I found it loathsome to suggest that he should be taken from his own father, who loved him and provided him with a loving home, in the name of political ideology. What a terrifying concept.
There were reports that the father didn't see Elian much when he lived in Cuba. His mother died trying to get him to freedom in America. If I recall correctly, the US offered the Father amnesty here in the states, which he turned down. That father was being selfish; any good father would wanted freedom for his son, even if it meant he could never see him again. Or maybe it was Castro pulling the Dad's strings.

Besides, what Reno ordered - an armed entry of the house was illegal. Armed entry is not permitted by the Feds unless there is imminent and reasonable fear of danger. The relatives hadn't rpovided any reason for those Feds to fear their lives were in danger.
__________________
80sU2isBest is offline  
Old 11-09-2006, 11:31 PM   #367
Blue Crack Addict
 
anitram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 16,272
Local Time: 06:42 PM
What a very ethnocentric view.

The father did have contact with Elian in Cuba - he was most certainly not estranged. Elian's mother committed an illegal act by taking the child out of jurisdiction which nearly killed him. She most certainly did not have clean hands nor did she act in his best interest.

"Freedom" in America. What an ethnocentric view. I'm just glad nobody thought to liberate me from the loving home of my parents for freedom in America. And guess what? We turned out to be just as upstanding as everyone else, more educated than your average American, and so on. Despite the horrid selfishness of our parents for keeping us in Communism.
__________________
anitram is online now  
Old 11-09-2006, 11:46 PM   #368
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
80sU2isBest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 4,970
Local Time: 06:42 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by anitram
What a very ethnocentric view.
Not ethnocentric at all. It's a freedom-loving view. If the boy had been taken to any free country to get him away from an oppressive government headed by an insane dictator, I would have supported the relatives wanting to keep him, not just America.

Viva La Freedom!

Quote:
Originally posted by anitram
The father did have contact with Elian in Cuba - he was most certainly not estranged.
So you say, but there are other reports which say the opposite, as well.

Quote:
Originally posted by anitram
She most certainly did not have clean hands nor did she act in his best interest.
She was acting in his best interests.

Quote:
Originally posted by anitram
Despite the horrid selfishness of our parents for keeping us in Communism.
Your parents probably weren't acting from selfishness by keeping you in Communism. They probably had no choice - as you know, Communist countries don't like it when people try to leave.

However, in Elian's case, the child was already over here, in the care of loving relatives. The dad didn't say "wow, my child is experiencing a free life right now"...he said "I must bring my child back home to me, no matter that he will have to grow up under the rule of an oppressive communist dictator". I call that selfishness.
__________________
80sU2isBest is offline  
Old 11-09-2006, 11:51 PM   #369
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 8,876
Local Time: 11:42 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by anitram
80s do you actually believe it was in the best interest of Elian Gonzalez, the child, to be taken away from his immediate family?

I grew up in a Communist state. Parents there loved their children just as much. And I found it loathsome to suggest that he should be taken from his own father, who loved him and provided him with a loving home, in the name of political ideology. What a terrifying concept.
Well, did you ever consider how Elian's mother would answer that question?
__________________
STING2 is offline  
Old 11-10-2006, 12:00 AM   #370
Blue Crack Addict
 
anitram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 16,272
Local Time: 06:42 PM
A woman who would take a 5 year old child into open water in essentially a dinghy boat, without informing or consulting his other legal guardian, and expose that child to a high risk of foreseeable harm is not acting in the child's best interest. She was criminally negligent.

If this was an American mother who did that and it went before American courts, she would lose custody immediately and rightfully so.

And as for this:

Quote:
Your parents probably weren't acting from selfishness by keeping you in Communism. They probably had no choice - as you know, Communist countries don't like it when people try to leave.
Wrong. I lived in one where you could leave. So I guess you should have come and liberated me.
__________________
anitram is online now  
Old 11-10-2006, 12:44 AM   #371
ONE
love, blood, life
 
A_Wanderer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wild West
Posts: 12,518
Local Time: 09:42 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


What? No mention of Clinton's ATF, which spear-headed the whole David Koresh fiasco, which ended in the deaths of dozens of innocent men, women and children?

Or how about Reno authorizing the feds' illegal armed entry of the house of Elian Gonzales on Easter weekend, pointing a gun in the child's face, and taking him crying and screaming away from the only people he knew in the entire USA - no mention of that?

Or how about Clinton sending troops to Somalia on a "peace-keeping" mission, not allowing them to fire back. How about those 12 soldiers that were killed there and dragged through the streets. How about the fact that Clinton did not retaliate for that?

You're looking at the Clinton Admin through Rose-colored glasses; there's no doubt about that.
George Bush sent the Marines into Somalia, the withdrawl of troops following the incident was a bad call; it proved to the Jihadists that their idea the USA is a paper tiger was right and shaped the strategy of incremental provocation to September 11 and the goals of the groups in Iraq and Afghanistan today.

I don't disagree with any particular point of the post but Bush hasn't done to much better - there needed to be a legal framework for dealing with illegal combatants and terrorists caught outside of the country (although worth pointing out rendition was carried out on Islamic terrorists under Clinton) - get on to dealing with the bastards without having a backlog of unresolved legal issues.

The criticisms of big government policies and anti-freedom laws that are made against Clinton can just as validly be made against Bush, and under two party systems the lowest common denominator rule ensures they will hang around.
__________________
A_Wanderer is offline  
Old 11-10-2006, 01:56 AM   #372
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 8,876
Local Time: 11:42 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by anitram
A woman who would take a 5 year old child into open water in essentially a dinghy boat, without informing or consulting his other legal guardian, and expose that child to a high risk of foreseeable harm is not acting in the child's best interest. She was criminally negligent.

If this was an American mother who did that and it went before American courts, she would lose custody immediately and rightfully so.

Of course, because Cuba is no different from the United States, and no one in their right mind would ever have any reason to leave Cuba, right?

I really don't know much about the specific situation of Elian, but I think it would be a bit naive to presume that every Cuban that has put their 5 year old child onto a boat and into the difficult circumstances of fleeing Cuba, did not have a legitamite reason to do so.
__________________
STING2 is offline  
Old 11-10-2006, 02:48 AM   #373
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,501
Local Time: 03:42 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by STING2


Well, did you ever consider how Elian's mother would answer that question?
I don't recall her ever saying anything about it
__________________
deep is online now  
Old 11-10-2006, 08:56 AM   #374
Blue Crack Addict
 
U2democrat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: England by way of 'Murica.
Posts: 22,140
Local Time: 11:42 PM
OK foks, if you want to talk about Elian, start a new thread, don't derail this one
__________________
U2democrat is offline  
Old 11-10-2006, 03:31 PM   #375
Blue Crack Supplier
 
dazzledbylight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: in the sound dancing - w Bono & Edge :D
Posts: 33,000
Local Time: 06:42 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by najeena
It is indeed a beautiful day. Congratulations to all who gave their time, money and enthusiasm to secure this victory. As my friend in Italy said, "the world breathes easier tonight".


I'm not only happy for Us in the USA, I am happy for the whole world.
We have a lot of damage to undo. But the changes that will help bring the changes here & then into the larger world - the work begins now. : )

and thanks for your thanks

najeen--- I don't know if you ever saw on-line the "i'm sorry" website from us Americans that came online within days of the 2004 USA election.....but there were many of us.
__________________

__________________
dazzledbylight is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:42 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com