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Old 12-03-2003, 10:21 AM   #16
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from cnn.com

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/Midwest/1...ody/index.html

New tape: Arrestee danced, marched around restaurant
Coroner's office says suspect suffered no internal injuries
Wednesday, December 3, 2003 Posted: 5:26 AM EST (1026 GMT)


CINCINNATI, Ohio (CNN) -- New video released Tuesday showed a man who died shortly after a violent confrontation with police dancing and marching around a restaurant and in the parking lot before officers arrived on the scene.

The video, shot from inside and outside the White Castle restaurant, showed Nathaniel Jones greeting a friend inside the restaurant early Sunday morning, and then dancing briefly. He then went into the parking lot, where he continued to dance and march like a soldier.

Later, he fell down and rolled down a hill. Restaurant employees called the fire department at 5:45 a.m. to report his bizarre behavior.

The tape also shows another view of the altercation with police, and Jones is seen lunging at one officer, as he is on the squad car dashboard videotape.

Jones, who weighed 350 pounds, died at a hospital shortly after police beat him with metal nightsticks to subdue him. The Hamilton County Coroner's office said Monday an autopsy showed Jones, 41, had an enlarged heart and had cocaine and PCP, or angel dust, in his system. An official cause of death is expected to be issued Wednesday.

The coroner's office on Tuesday said Jones had bruises on his legs but no sign of injuries to his internal organs.

In a statement, the coroner said Jones had linear bruises on his right calf, right thigh, right buttock and right lower back, but "there was no evidence of transmission of force to internal organs."

Jones had "a markedly enlarged heart, consistent with hypertensive heart disease," a coroner's statement said Monday.

Police later found about a third of a gram of powdered cocaine and two cigarettes dipped in PCP, or "angel dust," in Jones' car, the coroner's office said Tuesday. Preliminary tests showed the presence of both in Jones' system.

"Each of these drugs is a central nervous system stimulant and has been associated in some cases with bizarre and violently aggressive behavior," the statement said. The toxicology report will show exactly how much of each substance was in Jones' system.

The case has stirred fears in the Ohio metropolis, where the killing of an unarmed black man by a white police officer in 2001 sparked three nights of rioting.

The police, the FBI and the Justice Department's Civil Rights Division are gathering information on the incident.

Police have placed the six officers involved on administrative leave, as is standard in cases where a suspect dies in police custody. The Citizen Complaint Authority, created after the 2001 riots, also is looking into the incident.

Police chief defends officers
Meanwhile Tuesday, Cincinnati's police chief said a police cruiser video camera that recorded the incident indicates the officers acted properly.

Chief Thomas Streicher Jr. said, "Officers came under attack. At one point, they're defending themselves. At another point, a transition is made to where they are trying to arrest a person for a felony act of violence. ... Certainly, the standard for use of force in the United States is that the officers can use force to defend themselves and/or to overcome resistance to arrest. (CNN Access: Cincinnati police chief)

"These things take a tremendous toll on the officers," Streicher said, noting the widespread media attention.

The video camera was rolling when police got to the scene, but there was a brief gap in the tape.

Streicher said the camera automatically shuts off when the police cruisers are parked. That's done to avoid the running down the car's battery.

The camera can be turned on by a remote control on an officer's belt, and that's what might have happened as the situation escalated.

"If so, I think it was a very wise decision on the part of the officers," he said.

Police recount incident
The incident began at 5:45 a.m. Sunday, when the manager of a White Castle restaurant called the Cincinnati Fire Department to report that a man was unconscious on the floor.

Police gave this account:

When paramedics arrived, they found Jones and a woman who was with him, who was also in some sort of medical distress. Jones then regained consciousness, began acting strangely and left the restaurant.

At that point, following standard procedure, the fire officials called police.

A police videotape shows a squad car arriving at the restaurant at 5:58 a.m., at which point the recording device was switched off. (Account of video)

During the next few moments, which are not visible on tape, the two officers from the squad car approached Jones in the parking lot of the restaurant.

The tape resumes rolling at 6 a.m. An officer is heard saying to Jones, "You gotta tell me what's going on."

Jones then says, "White boy, redneck," and the tape shows him lunging at the officer and attempting to put him in a headlock.

At that point, the two officers -- both of whom are white -- wrestle Jones to the ground and use their metal nightsticks, appearing to strike him around the shoulders and torso numerous times and yelling repeatedly, "Put your hands behind your back!"

Soon after, four more officers arrive, including one black officer, and an apparent reference to pepper spray is heard on the tape.

The view of Jones, who is being subdued on the pavement in front of the squad car, is obscured from the camera, which is mounted on the dash.

At this point, what sounds like "Help!" is heard coming repeatedly from the pile of men. It becomes progressively fainter with each utterance.

A few minutes later, one officer asks for paramedics.

"He's got a pulse; he's just not breathing," the man says of Jones.

Jones was taken to a hospital, where he was pronounced dead.
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Old 12-03-2003, 01:42 PM   #17
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all i see in this video is police officers using proper police procedure to subdue a man who was violently out of control and obviously under the influence. this man attacked the officers first, and was subdued in a non-lethal matter. it is not the police officer's responsability to know that the man has an enlarged heart. they do not have x-ray vision, and they absolutely can not take the risk of not subduing him because he might have a heart condition. autopsy reports show his brusies to be on his legs, buttocks, arms, etc., and that there was no trauma suffered to any internal organs. chemical spray would have done very little to subdue a man jacked up on PCP. i took this quote off a web page detailing the strengths and weaknesses of various forms of non-lethal froce used my police and other civil servants.
Quote:
Chemical agents are not effective on many individuals, especially the mentally disturbed, those who are intoxicated, and persons under the influence of certain drugs.
the plain and simple facts are that this man attacked two police officers, and was subdued in a completely legal way. with his heart condition combined with the drugs he was on, it was only a matter of time before this man died.
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Old 12-03-2003, 01:55 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by Headache in a Suitcase
all i see in this video is police officers using proper police procedure to subdue a man who was violently out of control and obviously under the influence. this man attacked the officers first, and was subdued in a non-lethal matter. it is not the police officer's responsability to know that the man has an enlarged heart. they do not have x-ray vision, and they absolutely can not take the risk of not subduing him because he might have a heart condition. autopsy reports show his brusies to be on his legs, buttocks, arms, etc., and that there was no trauma suffered to any internal organs. chemical spray would have done very little to subdue a man jacked up on PCP. i took this quote off a web page detailing the strengths and weaknesses of various forms of non-lethal froce used my police and other civil servants.


the plain and simple facts are that this man attacked two police officers, and was subdued in a completely legal way. with his heart condition combined with the drugs he was on, it was only a matter of time before this man died.

Exactly.

Add cocaine (also found in his system) to the PCP and you've got an extremely dangerous man to deal with. Its a known fact that someone on PCP can break handcuffs and chemical sprays are virtually useless...these officers did what they had to do to subdue a man who was a danger to himself and everyone around him at the time.
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Old 12-03-2003, 02:28 PM   #19
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Dread with the title of the thread i assumed that you thought this was another rodney King. I assumed wrong, but your title should have been qouted to the person who said it, thereby making not your own.

I just watched the coroners press conference, he said this man had the PCP the coc the enlarged heart and the obesity also he said he had embalming fluid or methonal in his system. And he said it was alot of it.

The CPR thing, dread, the cops turned him on his side, and the cororner said it wouldnt have mattered anyway, but i guess that besides the point.

Was he not breathing after the attack, i was under the impression that he died at the hospital and he was still breathing at the scene.

Also the handcuffs, it would have taken 3 pairs of handcuffs to shackel him.
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Old 12-03-2003, 03:54 PM   #20
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I was under the impression he was not breathing at the scene...maybe I am wrong...and its all good
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Old 12-03-2003, 07:11 PM   #21
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This case is close. The cops did nothing wrong. PERIOD.
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Old 12-04-2003, 05:29 PM   #22
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Lawyer: Jones was trying to surrender
Attorney says prone position possibly caused heart attack
Thursday, December 4, 2003 Posted: 5:37 AM EST (1037 GMT)


CINCINNATI, Ohio (CNN) -- The attorney for Nathaniel Jones' family said he believes the man would have died whether or not he had drugs in his system because of the prone position in which police placed him.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/Midwest/1...ody/index.html


Here's an interesting take...
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Old 12-05-2003, 01:37 PM   #23
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The title "The Next Rodney King" very easily could have been the case. Now that the facts have been presented on how he really died from the coroner's office, people seem to have a different opinion. Before all the facts came out, the news media was not showing the entire clip of this man lunging at police, but only showing the portion of the tape where they were hitting him with a night-stick and on top of him. Obviously, if you only see this portion of the tape, you will have a biased opinion. It doesn't help when the news media says things like he was beaten to death, or died from wounds suffered in an altercation from the police. Wolf Blitzer said quote, "The gentleman who died when he was beaten by the Cincinnatti police department". That is HORRIBLE journalism and quite frankly, I feel is a form of Hate speech. It could have been "The Next Rodney King" had his death been proven to be cause by the police. With the problems the black community in Cincy have had with the police lately, it very easily could have started rioting.
Another thing, after reading some of the posts, some people have been saying how pepper spray could have been enough and how they could have personally taken this guy down. First, when you are on PCP, you can't feel pain. This guy was in a crazed state. They could have shot him in the arm, leg wherever and it wouldn't have mattered. He still would have came after them. Add this to 350 pounds of determination and it is a situation that I know I wouldn't want to be a part of.
We need to support the police on this one and realize they have a job that is more dangerous than anything most of us will ever do. Just my .02.....
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Old 12-06-2003, 04:16 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by swizzlestick

We need to support the police on this one and realize they have a job that is more dangerous than anything most of us will ever do. Just my .02.....
Well said
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