"the news today" - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 03-31-2004, 12:55 PM   #1
Refugee
 
wolfeden's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: calm down, cold resides with me. I flee to decemberunderground... as you exhale I breathe in, and sink into the water underground and I'll grow pale without you
Posts: 1,347
Local Time: 12:10 AM
"the news today"

.....news of U.S. soldiers dragged through the streets in Iraq today.

A friend of mine from college days has been over there for a year now, up until the end of February we'd all been hearing from him pretty regularly either by email or cel phone. He told us he was going out on patrol as of 22nd February and we have not heard anything since. His name has not turned up on the casualty/POWMIA lists and as far as we know his parents have not heard anything either.

But I Can't get this cold sick feeling in my gut to go away.
__________________

__________________
wolfeden is offline  
Old 03-31-2004, 04:25 PM   #2
Blue Crack Addict
 
joyfulgirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 16,615
Local Time: 10:10 PM
I just saw an image that has made me feel sick.

Hope you hear from your friend soon.
__________________

__________________
joyfulgirl is offline  
Old 03-31-2004, 04:29 PM   #3
Blue Crack Addict
 
MrsSpringsteen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 24,984
Local Time: 12:10 AM
I'm sorry about your friend, I hope everything turns out OK
__________________
MrsSpringsteen is offline  
Old 03-31-2004, 07:22 PM   #4
Blue Crack Addict
 
verte76's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: hoping for changes
Posts: 23,331
Local Time: 05:10 AM
I have been reading the reports of the bodies dragged through the streets........I can't imagine seeing it on the news. I did not watch the news today. I hope your friend is OK.
__________________
verte76 is offline  
Old 03-31-2004, 07:28 PM   #5
ONE
love, blood, life
 
shari schultz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Sconnie
Posts: 11,102
Local Time: 12:10 AM

I have a co-worker whose husband is in Baghdad and she goes through periods of not hearing from him for awhile-but in the end she has always heard from him.
*crosses fingers and prays you hear from your friend*
__________________
shari schultz is offline  
Old 03-31-2004, 11:20 PM   #6
Blue Crack Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 17,927
Local Time: 12:10 AM

These were not soldiers, but US civilian contractors for a security company. They were local to my region and people on my news were very upset. They haven't released the names yet but I hear one was a woman.

After they were burned and drug through the street and hit with poles, 2 were hung from a bridge. This is a disgrace.

These people were employees of Blackwater Security Consultants of Moyock, NC. So I doubt it was your friend Wolfeden But still I am very outraged and very sorry for the families of the people.
__________________
U2Kitten is offline  
Old 04-01-2004, 02:10 AM   #7
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,881
Local Time: 12:10 AM
I am ready to be flamed for this post.


The people were alive in the car when it was lit on fire. They were burned alive. They were CIVILIANS. After burning them, they were indeed dragged through the streets. Their bodies were beaten by shovels, and parts of their body were torn off, and hung from power lines. Other parts were indeed hung on the bridges. I have been tempted to post the pictures. I am so disgusted.

When nurses came to retrieve the bodies, they were chased away by a mob of people.

I want the United States Military to launch an operation IMMEDIATELY to recover these bodies. These are American citizens and should be brought home.

http://cache.gettyimages.com/comp/31...93BF1D0658D73D
http://cache.gettyimages.com/comp/31...C86B7A4E23BA36
http://cache.gettyimages.com/comp/31...3C515A65D6DBFF
http://cache.gettyimages.com/comp/31...B2AB8590277083
http://cache.gettyimages.com/comp/31...448493F481EEB3
http://cache.gettyimages.com/comp/31...849C3FF532D1C8
http://cache.gettyimages.com/comp/31...F6E66B483B4677
http://cache.gettyimages.com/comp/31...0F71963568F7D2
http://cache.gettyimages.com/comp/31...313DF302702EA4
http://cache.gettyimages.com/comp/31...F4AC0850C16B7B
http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com.../mdf512846.jpg

We are getting ready to bury a soldier here in Plymouth. I am sitting here tonight, ready to enlist again. It saddens me that I see children in the photos behaving in such a manner.

What a wonderful reflection upon their "civilization". I am so glad they are liberated. Maybe Saddam was the best thing for them. Maybe they are not ready for democracy. I hope that the Military Intelligence is circulating the photos among the troops, and I hope they strike back hard on these scumbags.
__________________
Dreadsox is offline  
Old 04-01-2004, 02:13 AM   #8
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,881
Local Time: 12:10 AM
April 1, 2004
4 From U.S. Killed in Ambush in Iraq; Mob Drags Bodies
By JEFFREY GETTLEMAN

ALLUJA, Iraq, March 31 Four Americans working for a security company were ambushed and killed Wednesday, and an enraged mob then jubilantly dragged the burned bodies through the streets of downtown Falluja, hanging at least two corpses from a bridge over the Euphrates River.

Less than 15 miles away, in the same area of the increasingly violent Sunni Triangle, five American soldiers were killed when a roadside bomb ripped through their armored personnel carrier.

The violence was one of the most brutal outbursts of anti-American rage since the war in Iraq began more than a year ago. And the steadily deteriorating situation in the Falluja area, a center of anti-American hostility west of Baghdad, has become so precarious that no American or Iraqi forces responded to the attack against the civilians, who worked for a North Carolina company.

American officials said the civilians were traveling in two sport utility vehicles although some witnesses in Falluja said there were four. "Two got away; two got trapped," said Muhammad Furhan, a taxi driver.

It is not clear what the four Americans were doing in Falluja or where they were going. But just as they were passing a strip of stationery stores and kebab shops around 10:30 a.m., masked gunmen jumped into the street and blasted their vehicles with assault rifles. Witnesses said the civilians did not shoot back.

There are a number of police stations in Falluja and a base of more than 4,000 marines nearby, but even as the security guards were being swarmed and their vehicles set on fire, sending plumes of inky smoke over the closed shops of the city, there were no ambulances, no fire engines and no assistance.

Instead, Falluja's streets were thick with men and boys and chaos.

Men with scarves over their faces hurled bricks into the blazing vehicles. A group of boys yanked a smoldering body into the street and ripped it apart. Someone then tied a chunk of flesh to a rock and tossed it over a telephone wire.

"Viva mujahedeen!" shouted Said Khalaf, a taxi driver. "Long live the resistance!"

Nearby, a boy no older than 10 ground his heel into a burned head. "Where is Bush?" the boy yelled. "Let him come here and see this!"

Masked men gathered around him, punching their fists into the air. The streets filled with hundreds of people. "Falluja is the graveyard of Americans!" they chanted.

Several news crews filmed the mayhem. The images of a frenzied crowd mutilating bodies were reminiscent of the scene from Somalia in 1993, when a mob dragged the body of an American soldier through the streets of Mogadishu. That moment shifted public opinion and eventually led to an American pullout.

The White House blamed terrorists and remnants of Saddam Hussein's former government for the attack. "This is a despicable attack," Scott McClellan, the White House spokesman, told reporters, adding that "there are some that are doing everything they can to prevent" a transfer of sovereignty to an Iraqi government on June 30.

American military officials said the violence in Falluja, however chilling, would not scare them away. "The insurgents in Falluja are testing us," said Capt. Chris Logan, a marine. "They're testing our resolve. But it's not like we're going to leave. We just got here."

Captain Logan, who is stationed at a large walled base on the outskirts of the city, said Falluja was becoming "an area of greater concern." Last week, a contingent of marines, who recently took over responsibility for Falluja from the Army, fought gunmen in a battle in which one marine, a television cameraman and several Iraqi civilians were killed.

"This is one of those areas in Iraq that is definitely squirrelly," Captain Logan said.

Many people in Falluja said they believed that they had won an important victory on Wednesday. They insisted that the four security guards, who were driving in unmarked sport utility vehicles, were working for the Central Intelligence Agency.

"This is what these spies deserve," said Salam Aldulayme, a 28-year-old Falluja resident.

Intelligence sources in Washington said the four were not working for the C.I.A. They worked for Blackwater Security Consulting of Moyock, N.C., providing security for food delivery in the Falluja area, according to a statement from the company. The occupation authorities have hired hundreds of private security guards for a range of duties.

Witnesses in Falluja said several of the men had Defense Department badges, though such identification is common for contractors working for the occupation. A senior military officer said the four were retired Special Operations forces three Navy Seals and one Army Ranger. American officials declined to immediately identify the dead men.

In the last three weeks, more than 10 foreign civilians have been killed in Iraq, though no attack provoked the spasm of brutality that followed this one.

Since the war in Iraq began, Falluja has been a flash point of violence. Of all the places in Iraq, it is where anti-American hatred is the strongest. The area is predominantly Sunni Muslim. Many families remain loyal to the captured dictator, Mr. Hussein, who is also a Sunni Muslim. Over the years, Mr. Hussein cultivated a network of patronage and privilege among the tribes and elders of Falluja. Many became top army officers. Some ran big companies. When Mr. Hussein was ousted last April, the people here lost their jobs, their businesses and their power.

That set off a cycle of killing and responses, a bloody feud between a clannish society and occupiers from thousands of miles away. Last April, American soldiers killed more than 15 civilians at a demonstration in Falluja. In November, an American helicopter was shot down outside the town, killing 16. Townspeople danced on the wreckage.

In February, insurgents mounted a brazen daylight attack against a convoy carrying Gen. John P. Abizaid, the American commander in the Middle East. He escaped unscathed. But two days later, gunmen blasted their way into a Falluja jail, killing at least 15 police officers and freeing dozens of prisoners.

Last week, the First Marine Expeditionary Force formally took control of the city, population 300,000, which sits on a desert shelf about 35 miles west of Baghdad. Marine commanders said they were going to try a different approach from the Army, which had basically pulled back to bases ringing Falluja and left policing up to the locals.

"We're doing work outside the wire," Captain Logan said. "We're running patrols. We're rebuilding things. We're working with Iraqis."

Most of the Sunni Triangle, north and west of Baghdad, has become so unsafe that American forces stick to their bases, their movement usually limited to heavily guarded convoys.

Around 7 a.m. on Wednesday, an Army convoy passing through the town of Habbaniya, west of Falluja, rolled over an I.E.D., or improvised explosive device. The bomb was buried in the road and blew up under an armored personnel carrier, killing five soldiers. Roadside bombs are everyday occurrences in Iraq. But few have claimed as many casualties. "It was a very large I.E.D.," said Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt, deputy operations director for the occupation forces.

A few hours later the men from Blackwater Security drove into downtown Falluja. After they were shot, the scene turned grisly. A crowd of more than 300 people flooded into the streets. Men swarmed around the vehicles. Some witnesses said the Americans were still alive when one boy came running up with a jug of gasoline. Soon, both vehicles were fireballs.

"Everybody here is happy with this," Mr. Furhan, the taxi driver, said. "There is no question."

After the fires cooled, a group of boys tore the corpses out of the vehicles. The crowd cheered them on. The boys dragged the blackened bodies to the iron bridge over the Euphrates River, about a mile away. Some people said they saw four bodies hanging over the water, some said only two. At sunset, nurses from a nearby hospital tried to take the bodies away.

Men with guns threatened to kill the nurses. The nurses left. The bodies remained.


Christine Hauser contributed reporting from Baghdad for this article.
__________________
Dreadsox is offline  
Old 04-01-2004, 04:29 AM   #9
ONE
love, blood, life
 
FizzingWhizzbees's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: the choirgirl hotel
Posts: 12,614
Local Time: 05:10 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
What a wonderful reflection upon their "civilization". I am so glad they are liberated. Maybe Saddam was the best thing for them. Maybe they are not ready for democracy. I hope that the Military Intelligence is circulating the photos among the troops, and I hope they strike back hard on these scumbags.


No flaming, I just think it's a shame that you draw such ugly conclusions from one incident.
__________________
FizzingWhizzbees is offline  
Old 04-01-2004, 06:18 AM   #10
Refugee
 
Klaus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: on a one of these small green spots at that blue planet at the end of the milky way
Posts: 2,432
Local Time: 06:10 AM
Dreadsox:
Quote:
Maybe Saddam was the best thing for them.

...

I hope that the Military Intelligence is circulating the photos among the troops, and I hope they strike back hard on these scumbags.
I understand that you're really upset, but think about it for a moment...
Could this what hapened inside you when you saw the pictures and heared the story be exactly the same "mechanism" in you which turns Honnest iraqis to people who hate the US and simply want revenge?
__________________
Klaus is offline  
Old 04-01-2004, 08:21 AM   #11
Blue Crack Addict
 
MrsSpringsteen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 24,984
Local Time: 12:10 AM
I think maybe this should be a separate thread considering wolfeden's personal situation

But I understand the anger and disgust about this-I saw it on the news last night, including the most graphic part that most stations censored. The children cheering made me especially sick. Certainly that group of people is not representative of all Iraqis, but maybe it's human nature to feel such anger about something like that.

I saw someone on CNN this morning who talked about the large numbers of Iraqis who are pleased w/ what the US is trying to do and disgusted by that horrific incident, but that the media isn't covering that.

God help the families of those people who were killed in that way-there are no words...
__________________
MrsSpringsteen is offline  
Old 04-01-2004, 08:29 AM   #12
New Yorker
 
Sherry Darling's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Virginia
Posts: 2,857
Local Time: 01:10 AM
Dread. I hear you. But I think FW and Klaus have wise words. Also...do I have my facts wrong? I'd thought they were dead already. Not that this mitigates much, but I'd heard differently on the news last night.

Either way, a devestating incident that really has me grieving, and angry that our admin got us into this without proper planning.



SD
__________________
Sherry Darling is offline  
Old 04-01-2004, 10:34 AM   #13
Blue Crack Addict
 
verte76's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: hoping for changes
Posts: 23,331
Local Time: 05:10 AM
I hear you too Dread. I'm disgusted with the people who have gotten us into this mess. This sucks.
__________________
verte76 is offline  
Old 04-01-2004, 10:35 AM   #14
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,881
Local Time: 12:10 AM
Maybe I will feel differently when we are done burrying the kid who goes to my church and graduated from my school.

I think back to the debates in here, and I do remember saying that I believed American soldiers SHOULD NEVER be used to spread Democracy. I wonder how I moved from that belief over the past year to holding on to this as my soul belief in the fact that we removed a brutal and viscious person, and we were doing something good for others.

They are NOT ready for Democracy, and I find myself moving back to my original position before the war. If there is NOT a CLEAR and PRESENT DANGER, the forces of the United States should be home. Damn the UN to hell for not doing something about Iraq LONG before this. Instead, we can play f-ing politics with a food for palace program and using veto votes to do anything meaningful for 12 years. Damn the UN for not authorizing the coalition to finish the job 12 years ago. If they had acted as they should have the US would not have been led down this path by an administration that needed a TARGET.

I am not sure which way is up anymore.

I do not believe that "Honest People" do the things I saw in the photos. I do not believe that a "civilized" people react this way towards people who have come and freed them from one of the most brutal dictatorships in the world.

I would love for someone, anyone to explain why it is logical for "Honest Iraqis" to seek VENGENCE against Civilians. I would love for someone to explain to me why my feelings and emotions are characterized as being VENGEFUL. I want justice. Do me a favor, do not characterize me as wanting revenge. I want to know why so many have died in this area in one week including soldiers, and nothing is being done about it by the Iraqi POLICE or the US forces.

If you believe these people are ready for Democracy, I would love to see a logical argument. Don't tell me its a shame I have drawn this conclusion from one incident! I find that pretty insulting that you would think so little of me that I would come to this conclusion on ONE incident. I do more reading that I have time to share in here about Iraq. This is not the 1st incident of the past year in which they have attacked civilians or bombed non-military targets. This is not the first time in the past week that this part of Iraq had a civilian uprising.
__________________
Dreadsox is offline  
Old 04-01-2004, 10:38 AM   #15
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,881
Local Time: 12:10 AM
Re: "the news today"

Quote:
Originally posted by wolfeden
.....news of U.S. soldiers dragged through the streets in Iraq today.

A friend of mine from college days has been over there for a year now, up until the end of February we'd all been hearing from him pretty regularly either by email or cel phone. He told us he was going out on patrol as of 22nd February and we have not heard anything since. His name has not turned up on the casualty/POWMIA lists and as far as we know his parents have not heard anything either.

But I Can't get this cold sick feeling in my gut to go away.
I am sorry if I pulled your thread off track. I hope and pray you hear from your friend soon.
__________________

__________________
Dreadsox is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:10 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com