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Old 03-05-2002, 02:18 PM   #1
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the new switzerland

is anyone else pissed off switzerland is now in the UN. what the hell?? why would anyone want to join the UN? now they are no longer neutral. just wait till switzerland goes into its first war.

now where the hell am i supposed to go if i get drafted???

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Old 03-05-2002, 02:28 PM   #2
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I'm not Swiss, so I don't feel it's my call. I lived there for a bit last fall though. Great country....I loved it there. Seriously tho, don't they all vote and have referendums on every issue? If that's the case and if the majority of the country wanted to join the UN, then why can't they?
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Old 03-05-2002, 02:47 PM   #3
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im not saying they cant. what im saying is, why would they want to? in my personal opinion, all war is bad. i dont agree totally with our war on terrorism. if they could join the UN and still stay neutral, i wouldnt have as much of a problem with it. i just think it's a shame that a great country like switzerland, which i have been to as well, will now lose its great tradition of being a neutral nation. and yes, they did vote on it, so they chose their own destiny.

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Old 03-05-2002, 04:18 PM   #4
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They're joining the UN, not the NATO......

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Old 03-05-2002, 04:31 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by calcio5tud:
im not saying they cant. what im saying is, why would they want to? in my personal opinion, all war is bad. i dont agree totally with our war on terrorism. if they could join the UN and still stay neutral, i wouldnt have as much of a problem with it. i just think it's a shame that a great country like switzerland, which i have been to as well, will now lose its great tradition of being a neutral nation. and yes, they did vote on it, so they chose their own destiny.
Forgive me, but even if they still join the UN they can remain neutral to the war, especially to the current war on terrorism.

I mean, for neutrality, you needn't look further than France and Germany who have their own problems. The UN has done nothing but send in peace-keeping troups to 'stabilise' already stabilised regions, so there is no need to fear. The truth is the only ones actually fighting this war is the USA and its pet dog Britain. So while it may seem that Switzerland is losing its neutrality, it isn't so.

I honestly don't think the Swiss have changed in their neutral position and 'sit on the fence' attitude at all, so I am not at all surprised or vexed by this news. And yes, I too have been to Switzerland and I must say that I adored it. A beautiful country that was both a haven for culture and a brothel for nearly every vice known to man. However, their neutrality has always bugged me.

I am not sure that neutrality is something to admire or support, especially in time of need and making hard decisions - a decision such as to join the war or condemn it, its all too convenient to sit back and let everybody else make all the hard decisions while benefiting from the peace that is trying to be maintained. It annoyed and annoys me still that the rest of Europe (with the exception of Russia) remained indifferent to the Spanish Civil War, and it still fills me with rage that Switzerland was neutral throughout the Second World War. It did substantially more than just 'sit on the fence', it eventually profited from it, which I find distasteful.

I am neither glad nor enraged that they have joined the UN, after all, the UN are mere political muppets believing that their existence serves a purpose - it serves no purpose to any political situation. All they ever seem to do is protest when ruthless action is being taken, and whine for action when none is being taken.

I am glad, however, that the Swiss have decided to join in on something for a change, nevermind that its completely useless.

Ant.
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Old 03-05-2002, 04:39 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by Anthony:
I am neither glad nor enraged that they have joined the UN, after all, the UN are mere political muppets believing that their existence serves a purpose - it serves no purpose to an political situation
I wouldn't say UNAIDS, UNICEF and UNESCO for example serve no purpose.
Of course, politically it's weak, because we're dealing with different nations and different opinions here, who want to keep their own autonomy. But I believe that the simple fact itself that there is a permanent political international deliberation organisation is a good thing.



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Old 03-08-2002, 07:39 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by calcio5tud:
im not saying they cant. what im saying is, why would they want to? in my personal opinion, all war is bad. i dont agree totally with our war on terrorism. if they could join the UN and still stay neutral, i wouldnt have as much of a problem with it. i just think it's a shame that a great country like switzerland, which i have been to as well, will now lose its great tradition of being a neutral nation. and yes, they did vote on it, so they chose their own destiny.


Um, open question here, what should we do instead of war? I am not for war by any means, and I have thought long and hard about a way to solve this problem, but I have yet to find a solution other than a war (which angers me greatly). I would really be interested (and I'm being totally honest here) in hearing what we shoud do to combat terrorism.


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Old 03-09-2002, 04:02 AM   #8
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Other members of the UN:

Iraq
Iran
North Korea
France

I mention the first three to illustrate that totalitarian regimes are part of the United Nations (hmm... wonder why the UN occasionally condemns the United States?). The belief that U.N. induction means that Switzerland is no longer neutral on the war against terrorism assumes that the U.N. itself will make any strong committment for the war.

Hell, they'll probably condemn the U.S. for the war by the end of the year.

And I mention France because, well, they're France. A wise man once called them "cheese-eating surrender monkeys," and I don't think the sentiment's too far off.
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Old 03-09-2002, 11:38 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by Achtung Bubba:

A wise man once called them "cheese-eating surrender monkeys," and I don't think the sentiment's too far off.
A very wise man indeed.

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Old 03-09-2002, 01:10 PM   #10
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Being part of the U.N. doesn't mean that they are no longer neutral, nor does it mean that they have to support or contribute to wars.

I believe that Switzerland's neutrality rests solely on a treaty back in the 1500s, as mercenaries-for-hire from Switzerland were so renowned that they terrified other European nations, often dragging out wars much longer. So, basically, in exchange for permanent neutrality, the other European nations promised never to attack, assuring its survival. European nations insisted on permanent Swiss neutrality, so I wouldn't label it as a "weak" nation that doesn't have its own opinions.

Melon

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[This message has been edited by melon (edited 03-09-2002).]
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Old 03-09-2002, 01:17 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by Achtung Bubba:
A wise man once called them "cheese-eating surrender monkeys," and I don't think the sentiment's too far off.
With comments like this still being brought up today, it is no wonder the French loathe the English-speaking world. The French just could not stack up against German militarism of World War I and II.

But that was a long time ago. The world--and America--has changed a lot since then.

Melon

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"He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time
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Old 03-09-2002, 08:37 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon:
But that was a long time ago. The world--and America--has changed a lot since then.

Melon
That is true, Melon, and it would be nice to forgive and forget, however, the French are not all that popular in Europe, almost as unpopular as the British. If you ask a European to sum up France, they will tell you three things; trade blockades, political indifference and a really ugly art museum called the Pompidou Centre.

I'm not saying that the French should be reviled, I'm only saying that some of the stereotypes and the weiscracks made against them are right about one or two things.

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Old 03-09-2002, 09:30 PM   #13
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Never mind that. Everyone hates Germany
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Old 03-10-2002, 12:53 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon:
With comments like this still being brought up today, it is no wonder the French loathe the English-speaking world. The French just could not stack up against German militarism of World War I and II.

But that was a long time ago. The world--and America--has changed a lot since then.

Melon

From the Wise Man's own list of 1999:

1. They surrendered Paris to the Germans without firing a shot. Then, to the tune of the U.S. Third Armyís tank treads, they marched back in and ďliberatedĒ it. Then they had the líchutzpah to insist on being one of the Big Four victors after the War.

2. During Operation Torch, the would-be ďvictoriousĒ French fired on U.S. forces trying to land in North Africa. (In Casablanca, the French battleship Jean Bart duked it out with the USS Massachusetts. The chowder-heads whupped the cheese-eaters). While they did fire on our forces, they didnít do it for long, being French. After the War, the generals responsible claimed they werenít trying very hard because they liked the Allies -- but, still, they had to keep up appearances. Even victors canít be too careful.

3. When the U.S. needed to bomb Libya in retaliation for a terrorist attack on American soldiers, the French refused to let us fly through their airspace. Perhaps they get confused when they hear planes overhead and donít have any German generals to escort to a shelter.

4. Sticking us with Vietnam.

5. There are more French people who think they fought in the resistance than there are babyboomers who claim they were at Woodstock.

6. The spy in NATO headquarters is rumored to be French.

7. And speaking of NATO, for most of the Cold War they wanted nothing to do with it. Somehow they thought it was French resolve holding back the Warsaw Pact.

8. And speaking of the Cold War, FranÁois Mitterand tried to keep East Germany a separate socialist country.

9. You canít swing a baguette without hitting a French intellectual who thinks America is imperialistic, and yet I donít think it was the Peace Corps teaching kids in Djibouti to say ďOur forefathers, the Gauls.Ē And I donít seem to remember Vietnam being in ďAmerican Indochina.Ē

10. They distract us from the real threat of Belgian hegemony.

Now, before you complain, just remember that laughter is the best medicine.

(Of course, if that IS true, France is suffering from nation-wide drug abuse in the form of Jerry Lewis.)
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Old 03-10-2002, 02:01 AM   #15
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Speaking of all this, it's been about 65 years since France has surrendered to Germany. Aren't they about due?

Serious - I thought Europeans could be trusted for their punctuality.

<snicker>
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