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Old 08-29-2004, 09:14 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally posted by Salome
I didn't know there was a Vietnam myth

I agree that crimes have occured in every war
it just took us a while as human beings to evolve to a stage where we are able to admit afterwards that (partly due to the circumstances of the war at hand) we crossed a line and did things we shouldn't have done

I've read all the Kerry quotes Sting posted and except for the crimes being committed on a "day to day basis" there isn't that much there I have a problem believing based on Vietnam documentaries etc I have seen

I wouldn't have used the same words as Kerry by all means (far too dramatised for my personal liking) but I'm not exactly sure why they would be regarded as "inaccurate, offensive and simply digusting"
Do you honestly think that all officers at all levels of command either committed war crimes or approved of war crimes? Kerry has Zero evidence for his claims.

The Veterans of Vietnam were trashed when they came home to the United States and lies and false rumors were spread about what they did and did not do. I'm sure Europeans and others around the world participated in this bashing of the Veterans as well as what happened in the war.

Kerry did not provide any tangible evidence for his claims against the veterans in his testimony. If you have evidence to support his claims, lets see it.

Kerry's claims are grossly inaccurate and are offensive and disgusting, especially to most veterans who served there. Ever guess why Kerry prevents the book "New Soldier" from being printed again?

Kerry's testimony is simply indefensible.
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Old 08-29-2004, 09:47 PM   #32
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I think Salome proves the point, you do not believe in there being a Vietnam myth if you think that Kerry's testimony is the truth about what happened, it is the image of the war being totally wrong - there was absolutely no good done by trying to prevent communism from spreading in SE Asia, fought by a bunch of stoned baby-killers all of whom suffer because of the crimes they commited during the war. A lot of great men fought and died in Vietnam, I find the way that their service and sacrifice is viewed by many offensive - Kerry helped to construct this image of the "New Soldier" and there are a lot of Veterans who have not and will not forgive this.
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Old 08-30-2004, 02:04 AM   #33
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I don't think much at all about Kerry's testimony because I don't know it except for the quotes printed here

and those quotes when undone from the dramatised language coincide what I have seen on tv and read about this war
from all sides, other veterans included

I don't have any evidence of course
but if anyone could have proven that Kerry was spreading false lies I'm quite sure that he wouldn't have been able to make any kind of career after this testimony, let alone try and become the president of the USA

Quote:
Originally posted by STING2
I'm sure Europeans and others around the world participated in this bashing of the Veterans as well as what happened in the war.
nice one
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Old 08-30-2004, 08:53 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by Salome
I don't think much at all about Kerry's testimony because I don't know it except for the quotes printed here

and those quotes when undone from the dramatised language coincide what I have seen on tv and read about this war
from all sides, other veterans included

I don't have any evidence of course
but if anyone could have proven that Kerry was spreading false lies I'm quite sure that he wouldn't have been able to make any kind of career after this testimony, let alone try and become the president of the USA

nice one
Let me ask you again. Do you think as John Kerry does in his testimony that all officers in Vietnam at all levels of command were guilty in some way of war crimes?

What are your sources that support what John Kerry says in his testimony? What evidence do such sources have to support their claims or conculsions?

Oh, and lets say I was to make some charge that while I was on vacation in the Netherlands, I or others I was with saw gross acts of brutality, would you be able to prove such testimony false?

It is incumbent of those that accuse others of crimes to have evidence to prove their case. I wouldn't like it if someone made false accusations against me and I'm sure you would not like it if someone did the same to you.

One more thing about Kerry and his political career. Lets remember that Anti-War protestors created a climate in the United States that was openly hostile to the brave men and women serving in the United States military. Military personal returning from Vietnam had human waste throw at them in airports and were screamed at with shouts of "baby killer". In such a climate one could thrive politically by going out and making similar protest as well as going before congress and having the focus of ones testimony be on war crimes. I ask you this, why does KERRY no longer allow people to print his book from the time called "The New Soldier"? Yes, there are a lot of people in the United States who do believe what Kerry says, but they have no evidence to support his claims. Anyone can make accusations about anything, but it is an injustice to believe such things about others without any evidence.

Are you going to tell me there were no Europeans at all that engaged in protest and other activities similar to Anti-War protest in the United States during the Vietnam war?

Kerry's testimony was inaccurate, disgusting and offensive.

Vietnam in regards to crimes committed is no different than any war that has ever been fought. I hope that one day this myth put out by liberals that the war was dirty and the Veterans were baby killers, will no longer persist.

Everyone should be grateful for veterans of Vietnam and what they did for all of us. They all deserve are respect and gratitude. Unlike what John Kerry said in his testimony, they are great men and women!
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Old 08-30-2004, 09:03 AM   #35
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of course vietnam veterans shouldn't be regarded as baby killers
most of them just did their job

but to make it out as if kerry is sort of a mastermind behind giving the vietnam war a bad rep is just plain ridiculous


I wasn't going to tell you there were no Europeans engaged in protests against Vietnam
I simply commended you on trying to devaluate my post with an insane insinuation that since I'm a European I probably hate every living american and especially war veterans
I thought that was cute
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Old 08-30-2004, 07:14 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by Salome
of course vietnam veterans shouldn't be regarded as baby killers
most of them just did their job

but to make it out as if kerry is sort of a mastermind behind giving the vietnam war a bad rep is just plain ridiculous


I wasn't going to tell you there were no Europeans engaged in protests against Vietnam
I simply commended you on trying to devaluate my post with an insane insinuation that since I'm a European I probably hate every living american and especially war veterans
I thought that was cute
Whats cute is your insinuation that I have tried to devalue your posts by saying that you hate americans and war veterans. I have no idea how you can come up with this. I have never said such a thing.

I have stated that John Kerry's testimony before Congress was inaccurate, offensive, and disgusting. I did say that his inaccurate testimony on TV did in a small way provide fuel for those harrassing veterans as they came home from the war.

I have never said that John Kerry was the Mastermind of the anti-war movement. On the contrary, John Kerry was a late arrival and his activities seem a bit politically opportunistic given the time period.
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Old 08-31-2004, 02:01 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by STING2
Whats cute is your insinuation that I have tried to devalue your posts by saying that you hate americans and war veterans. I have no idea how you can come up with this. I have never said such a thing.
aww, come on
I don't mind disagreeing but don't insult my intelligence


I have never heard Kerry's testimony
and I don't know the effects of his testimony
I do know that this thread seems to evolve around why Kerry did an unforgivable thing
and if that unforgivable thing is that his testimony moght in a small way have fuelled a group of anti war fanatics who don't need much instigation anyway than it's no wonder we're the only two who even post in this thread anymore
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Old 08-31-2004, 08:18 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by Salome
aww, come on
I don't mind disagreeing but don't insult my intelligence


I have never heard Kerry's testimony
and I don't know the effects of his testimony
I do know that this thread seems to evolve around why Kerry did an unforgivable thing
and if that unforgivable thing is that his testimony moght in a small way have fuelled a group of anti war fanatics who don't need much instigation anyway than it's no wonder we're the only two who even post in this thread anymore
I have never insulted your intelligence or insinuated that you hate Americans or veterans.

If you have questions about the meaning of something I posted, then please ask me to clarify.

This thread is about John Kerry's testimony and his book, which he will not allow anyone to print anymore, in which he makes inaccurate statements about Vietnam Veterans, the war in Vietnam, and the Cold War in general.
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Old 09-01-2004, 03:37 AM   #39
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Vietnam Veterans Against War
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Old 09-01-2004, 09:34 AM   #40
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I'm guessing Kerry wrote up that flyer?
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Old 09-01-2004, 11:33 AM   #41
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Was Kerry part of the group that wrote the flyer? I doubt he actually typed it up.
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Old 09-02-2004, 05:32 AM   #42
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Kerry was part of that group, he (probably) didn't write up the flyer.

That flyer demonstrates what type of group it was, Kerrys testimony ties in closely with that view of the war and those that serve as barbaric killers - I have no problem with his war record, its the bullshit that he did when he got back that gets me angry.
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