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Old 07-28-2006, 01:44 AM   #61
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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


Thanks for coming forward.

The thing that got me about that thread is the double-standard that often comes into play in this forum. Certain people with certain views that differ from those held by myself and like-minded individuals are allowed to say things like that without anyone calling them on the carpet. However, if I were to say Liberals are lunatics or something like that, especially in a thread that was expressly intended as a "no-argument zone", there'd be no end to the flack I'd get for it.
As much as I agree that this forum is somewhat one sided, I have to call bullshit. I have several times called someone out for making blantant generalizations towards conservatives.

Now I will admit most of the time it's with newbies or non-regulars to let them know this isn't tolerated. But it doesn't mean I support it when others do this, sometimes it's just easier for the original posters to deal with the situation.

Yes you are a minority(as far as regulars are concerned) but you would be best not to play victim. This is not meant to be an insult, I'm just giving you some friendly advice...
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Old 07-28-2006, 03:03 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


Thanks for coming forward.

The thing that got me about that thread is the double-standard that often comes into play in this forum. Certain people with certain views that differ from those held by myself and like-minded individuals are allowed to say things like that without anyone calling them on the carpet. However, if I were to say Liberals are lunatics or something like that, especially in a thread that was expressly intended as a "no-argument zone", there'd be no end to the flack I'd get for it.
Well say it but back it up with the evidence - because when we are looking at links between Nazi fascism and Islamic Terrorism (which is a means to an end - the formations of theocratic and effectively fascist or at least statist forms of government) .

Actually it is a little disengenuous, Baathism is ideologically and practically a lot closer to fascism than Islamism, it's a moot point since they both fail to produce the utopias they strive towards. The meetings and alliances between the Nazis and al-Husayni are documented as well as the complicty in recruiting Bosnian Muslims for SS units and to a degree the holocaust.

There is a valid case to be made and defended, criticism is not silencing dissent or a form of opression, you may be defending a minority opinion but the fact that you have that right should be embraced and engaged in with vigour.

So in conclusion Islam, Christianity and Nazism can all hang around but hopefully the force of reason will come to bear in the minds of most.
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Old 07-28-2006, 10:29 AM   #63
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Originally posted by A_Wanderer
Well say it but back it up with the evidence - because when we are looking at links between Nazi fascism and Islamic Terrorism (which is a means to an end - the formations of theocratic and effectively fascist or at least statist forms of government) .

Actually it is a little disengenuous, Baathism is ideologically and practically a lot closer to fascism than Islamism, it's a moot point since they both fail to produce the utopias they strive towards. The meetings and alliances between the Nazis and al-Husayni are documented as well as the complicty in recruiting Bosnian Muslims for SS units and to a degree the holocaust.

There is a valid case to be made and defended, criticism is not silencing dissent or a form of opression, you may be defending a minority opinion but the fact that you have that right should be embraced and engaged in with vigour.

So in conclusion Islam, Christianity and Nazism can all hang around but hopefully the force of reason will come to bear in the minds of most.
A, I think you misunderstood me. I wasn't talking about this thread.
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Old 07-28-2006, 10:32 AM   #64
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


As much as I agree that this forum is somewhat one sided, I have to call bullshit. I have several times called someone out for making blantant generalizations towards conservatives.

Now I will admit most of the time it's with newbies or non-regulars to let them know this isn't tolerated. But it doesn't mean I support it when others do this, sometimes it's just easier for the original posters to deal with the situation.

Yes you are a minority(as far as regulars are concerned) but you would be best not to play victim. This is not meant to be an insult, I'm just giving you some friendly advice...
It's not called "playing victim" if it's true. And it is true. There is a double standard. I never said you practice the double standard.
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Old 07-28-2006, 12:01 PM   #65
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As an imperfect method of communication, forum discussions can evolve into bullying sessions with repeated assertations of "I can't believe you think that way". 80's isn't making some wild assertation, and did not direct it at any individual necessitating a response.
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Old 07-28-2006, 01:17 PM   #66
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Originally posted by nbcrusader
As an imperfect method of communication, forum discussions can evolve into bullying sessions with repeated assertations of "I can't believe you think that way". 80's isn't making some wild assertation, and did not direct it at any individual necessitating a response.
Thanks, nb.
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Old 07-29-2006, 05:13 PM   #67
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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest



Before I post the quotes from his own autobiography, I feel obliged to tell you that none of that quote is about the true Jesus. Hitler had a messed up view of Jesus. If Hitler had some admiration of Jesus, it was only for traits he imagined in his head. Jesus himself was a Jew, and Jesus was not a fighter. If Hitler held Jesus as Lord and Savior, it was for some other Jesus - it was not for Jesus the Christ as written about in the Bible. Therefore, Hitler was not a Christian at all. Anyone can call himself a Christian; doesn't mean he is one. I could call myself an athiest, but my beliefs are totally opposite of an athiest's beliefs - therefore I am not an Athiest.

Here are the quotes I promised you, which show how Hitler felt about Christianity. Remember, these are his own words:

Night of 11th-12th July, 1941

"National Socialism and religion cannot exist together....
"The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity....
"Let it not be said that Christianity brought man the life of the soul, for that evolution was in the natural order of things." (p 6 & 7)

10th October, 1941, midday

"Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure." (p 43)

14th October, 1941, midday

"The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death.... When understanding of the universe has become widespread... Christian doctrine will be convicted of absurdity....
"Christianity has reached the peak of absurdity.... And that's why someday its structure will collapse....
"...the only way to get rid of Christianity is to allow it to die little by little....
"Christianity <is> the liar....
"We'll see to it that the Churches cannot spread abroad teachings in conflict with the interests of the State." (p 49-52)

19th October, 1941, night

"The reason why the ancient world was so pure, light and serene was that it knew nothing of the two great scourges: the pox and Christianity."

21st October, 1941, midday

"Originally, Christianity was merely an incarnation of Bolshevism, the destroyer....
"The decisive falsification of Jesus' <who he asserts many times was never a Jew> doctrine was the work of St.Paul. He gave himself to this work... for the purposes of personal exploitation....
"Didn't the world see, carried on right into the Middle Ages, the same old system of martyrs, tortures, faggots? Of old, it was in the name of Christianity. Today, it's in the name of Bolshevism. Yesterday the
instigator was Saul: the instigator today, Mardochai. Saul was changed into St.Paul, and Mardochai into Karl Marx. By exterminating this pest, we shall do humanity a service of which our soldiers can have no idea." (p 63-65)

13th December, 1941, midnight

"Christianity is an invention of sick brains: one could imagine nothing more senseless, nor any more indecent way of turning the idea of the Godhead into a mockery.... <here insults people who believe
transubstantiation>....
"When all is said, we have no reason to wish that the Italians and Spaniards should free themselves from the drug of Christianity. Let's be the only people who are immunised against the disease." (p 118-119)

14th December, 1941, midday

"Kerrl, with noblest of intentions, wanted to attempt a synthesis between National Socialism and Christianity. I don't believe the thing's possible, and I see the obstacle in Christianity itself....
"Pure Christianity-- the Christianity of the catacombs-- is concerned with translating Christian doctrine into facts. It leads quite simply to the annihilation of mankind. It is merely whole-hearted Bolshevism,
under a tinsel of metaphysics." (p 119 & 120)

9th April, 1942, dinner

"There is something very unhealthy about Christianity." (p 339)

27th February, 1942, midday

"It would always be disagreeable for me to go down to posterity as a man who made concessions in this field. I realize that man, in his imperfection, can commit innumerable errors-- but to devote myself deliberately to errors, that is something I cannot do. I shall never come personally to terms with the Christian lie."
"Our epoch in the next 200 years will certainly see the end of the disease of Christianity.... My regret will have been that I couldn't... behold <its demise>." (p 278)
Do you have a source for these quotes?

Because the diaries of Hitler have never been found and the only one that exist are fakes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler_diaries
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Old 07-29-2006, 09:04 PM   #68
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Originally posted by Vincent Vega


Do you have a source for these quotes?

Because the diaries of Hitler have never been found and the only one that exist are fakes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler_diaries
My source is not "The Hitler Diaries". In fact, it's not a diary at all. It's called "Hitler's Table Talk" (Adolf Hitler, first published by London, Weidenfeld & Nicholson in 1953).

I was wrong that it was an "autobiography", but it is indeed Hitler's own words.

This is what Amazon says about "Table Talk":

Hitler's Table Talk 1941-1944 records the private, off the record, informal conversations of a man who, more than anyone else, came close to destroying the western world. On Martin Bormann's instructions, the secret conversations at Hitler's headquarters from July 1941 to November 1944 were all recorded. This is the real companion volume to Hitler's Mein Kampf, whereby what had been a project suddenly was reality, almost to the disbelief of its author.

Here is a startling account of Hitler freely talking about his enemies, his friends, his ambitions, his failures, his secret dreams voicing his thoughts to his intimate associates as the sun set at the end of each day of the war. We see here a conversational Hitler letting down his guard to his trusted henchmen. Miraculously, Martin Bormann persuaded Hitler to let these talks be taken down by a team of specially picked shorthand writers. Hitler had intended, after his famous tyranny, to use these notes as source material for the books he planned to write about the glory of the Thousand-Year Reich.

Now they have come to us, indisputably authentic, a raw, fascinating, unretouched look at the inner recesses of the mind of Adolf Hitler. Der Fuhrer's mind was crude and narrow; he had little education and, as we see here, no humanity; but we can also see that he was (as he himself knew) a political genius, a terrible simplifier, a man who, with no equipment except his own will power, personality and ideas, attempted to bring mankind into a terrible darkness.

As Trevor-Roper says in his brilliant introduction if we are to discover the mind of Hitler, we must penetrate behind the thick curtains of superficial evidence which conceal it the repellant character which formed its expression, and for which no power of thought can compensate, and the unreliable intermediaries who have commented upon it. We must go directly to Hitler's personal utterances: not indeed to his letters and speeches these, so valuable, are too public, too formalized for such purposes to his secret conversations, his table talk.
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Old 07-29-2006, 09:12 PM   #69
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Hitler killed my favorite historian, Marc Bloch, possibly the greatest of the medievalists, because Bloch's parents were Jewish. Bloch never considered himself particularly Jewish because he wasn't religious, he considered himself French. The things that damn Austrian did...............
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