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Old 07-26-2006, 06:00 PM   #16
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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


I feel obliged to tell you that none of that quote is about the true Jesus. Hitler had a messed up view of Jesus. If Hitler had some admiration of Jesus, it was only for traits he imagined in his head.
Here's the ultimate problem with all public religion. It's all distrorted view, some more than others, but it's all distorted.

I can't stand those that claim that the hatred spread by Christianity is a manipulated view, yet the hate spread by the Muslim religion is true.
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Old 07-26-2006, 06:04 PM   #17
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Hitler messed up all discussion of religion.
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Old 07-26-2006, 06:05 PM   #18
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I wish there was no religon.
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Old 07-26-2006, 06:12 PM   #19
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obviously not all Christians are Nazis. But except for people like Himmler or Goebbels, I think its safe to assume that most Nazis, as were most Germans, were Christians. Although as 80s pointed out, not every self-proclaimed christian is a true christian. hitler himself, especially, had a quite warped sense of christianity. just like extremist islamist terrorists have a warped sense of islam.

given that, the Nazi=Christian thing doesnt hold any water. Just like the Terrorist=Muslim thing doesnt.

Anyway, going back to the original point, i dont think Nazis and muslims had a pact to overtake the world through fascism.
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Old 07-26-2006, 06:14 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Here's the ultimate problem with all public religion. It's all distrorted view, some more than others, but it's all distorted.

I can't stand those that claim that the hatred spread by Christianity is a manipulated view, yet the hate spread by the Muslim religion is true.
BVS, Hitler said that Jesus was a non-Jew and a fighter. He is wrong on both counts. Jesus was definitely a Jew, and of all the writings we have on Jesus, Biblical and non-Biblical, none mention Jesus as a fighter. In fact, it is written that he lived by his motto "Turn the other cheek". It follows, therefore, that Hitler's view of Jesus was undoubtedly incorrect.

I do not know how my point could be any clearer.
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Old 07-26-2006, 06:16 PM   #21
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Originally posted by all_i_want
obviously not all Christians are Nazis. But except for people like Himmler or Goebbels, I think its safe to assume that most Nazis, as were most Germans, were Christians.
It's not safe to assume that; you even point that out yourself, below:

Quote:
Originally posted by all_i_want
Although as 80s pointed out, not every self-proclaimed christian is a true christian.
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Old 07-26-2006, 06:20 PM   #22
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I can't stand those that claim that the hatred spread by Christianity is a manipulated view, yet the hate spread by the Muslim religion is true.
Well good since they both spread the hate and inflict damage.

The meeting between Hitler and al-Husayni is documented in Albert Speers biography "Inside the Third Reich".

His wikipedia article also covers the issue.
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Old 07-26-2006, 06:25 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


It's not safe to assume that; you even point that out yourself, below:

well, then i could argue that terrorists who wage the so-called 'jihad' are not muslims either. would you then refrain from referring to them as muslims? i dont think so.
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Old 07-26-2006, 06:37 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


BVS, Hitler said that Jesus was a non-Jew and a fighter. He is wrong on both counts. Jesus was definitely a Jew, and of all the writings we have on Jesus, Biblical and non-Biblical, none mention Jesus as a fighter. In fact, it is written that he lived by his motto "Turn the other cheek". It follows, therefore, that Hitler's view of Jesus was undoubtedly incorrect.

I do not know how my point could be any clearer.
I wasn't arguing your point. If you read my response, you would know that. I just used your response as a springboard to show how religion DOES get distorted. That's it.

This is at least the second time in the last week where you've made a somewhat snippy response to someone who was in essence agreeing with you. Maybe you should re-read people's post before responding so quickly.
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Old 07-26-2006, 06:41 PM   #25
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Hitler was indeed into the Occult - in fact Black Magic played it's part with many of the top ranking Nazi's. I really don't want to start something here but many of Hitlers henchmen were woman hating homosexuals (coincidentaly so are many of the Islamic militants - not all mind you - but many). This is not saying anything against typical gay males but what I am talking about here is much more sinister i.e. The Taliban
A good friend of mine was sent over to Afghanistan back in 2003 and had lots of contact with these guys - his take on it was that there were "way more homo's than I ever thought there would be" amongst the Taliban he helped capture. He was quite shocked actually - I must say I always suspected this though. Any male who's gonna whip a female for showing her ankle is a sick and twisted individual. Again, I am not saying anything against the typical gay male out there but this kind of thing is like I said before - much more sinister. I better shut up now before this gets out of control.
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Old 07-26-2006, 06:55 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by Harry Vest
Hitler was indeed into the Occult - in fact Black Magic played it's part with many of the top ranking Nazi's. I really don't want to start something here but many of Hitlers henchmen were woman hating homosexuals (coincidentaly so are many of the Islamic militants - not all mind you - but many). This is not saying anything against typical gay males but what I am talking about here is much more sinister i.e. The Taliban
A good friend of mine was sent over to Afghanistan back in 2003 and had lots of contact with these guys - his take on it was that there were "way more homo's than I ever thought there would be" amongst the Taliban he helped capture. He was quite shocked actually - I must say I always suspected this though. Any male who's gonna whip a female for showing her ankle is a sick and twisted individual. Again, I am not saying anything against the typical gay male out there but this kind of thing is like I said before - much more sinister. I better shut up now before this gets out of control.
oh boy.

its easy to connect nazis to everyone from christians to muslims, from homosexuals to god knows who else, i guess. lets not attach the swastika to all these groups and aggrevate each other.
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Old 07-26-2006, 07:09 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
Well good since they both spread the hate and inflict damage.

The meeting between Hitler and al-Husayni is documented in Albert Speers biography "Inside the Third Reich".

His wikipedia article also covers the issue.
"Inside the Third Reich" is a great read - albeit, a tough one to read. Speers is so relatable, which makes his story that more tragic and eerie.
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Old 07-26-2006, 07:11 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


Hitler was fascinated in anything that would give him power - including all aspects of the occult.

Leave the "Nazi=Christian" shit out. Or don't if you want to perpetuate another form of hate.
I think you misunderstood me.

By no means have I said Nazi=Christian. And as to 80s, sure Hitler was evil and has nothing to do with what Christianity in its origins stands for. Just allow us to get the historical point of view and the religious point of view clearly. When I say a majority of Nazis were Christians, that´s just statistics - there weren´t living many Muslims or Hindus or Buddhists in Germany at that time, and a majority of Germans who voted for Hitler were Christians.

Isn´t it a desperate tragedy that apparently people from all religions are able to commit the most atrocious crimes. We could skip back to Christian crusades or the middle age not even mentioning WWII. And when we do, it is important to remember that National Socialism was a political movement, NSDAP were a party. People who declared themselves to be Christians, who actually were Christians, killed Jews in concentration camps- as difficult as this seems to be to accept.

Is that human nature? No, it is not human, one would like to believe. "The Nazi connection to Islamic terrorism" - what is that piece of bullshit! Come on. The whole purpose of this book is to stir hate.

So it is still important to stress (sigh.. after 60 years) that Hitler wasn´t a crazed up madmen occult blah blah whatever because when you label a dictator like, how can you judge the whole social envirnment that led to the wide acceptance of this kind of dictator? How can you judge the people around him that supported him in the first place, when these people still this was a madman in a mad time to play down their own crimes?

It is very dangerous to play this down, and that´s essentially what the political parties in Austria did up to the 70s. Let´s not talk about it. Lol. Before Hitler rolled over Austria in 1938, we even had Austro-Fascism. Now what kind of movement do you think that was? Dollfuss was a conservative Christian. he was murdered by Austrian Nazis later, but not before becoming chancellor with dictatorial powers in 1933 and shooting Socialists in an uprising in 1934.

The historical dimension and the social background (as social, tied to a certain lifestyle, religion, culture) at that time is a little more complicated than anything you may have thought I meant to say in my last post.
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Old 07-26-2006, 07:47 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


IThis is at least the second time in the last week where you've made a somewhat snippy response to someone who was in essence agreeing with you. Maybe you should re-read people's post before responding so quickly.
BVS, in the post to which I was responding, you said:

"I can't stand those that claim that the hatred spread by Christianity is a manipulated view, yet the hate spread by the Muslim religion is true."

That was in response to my assertion that Hitler had a distorted view of Christianity.

Surely, you won't sit there and tell me that you don't see why I failed to see that you were "agreeing" with me.

As for the other post, first I'll say: How can the following be characterized as "snippy"?

Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest
I wasn't "sneaking in" anything. The "wacko" statement was a sneak-in. I was openly stating that this was not the place for it.

I'm not arguing about whether Republicans are "wacko". I'm pointing out that this thread is not the place for it.

Secondly, I'll say that you are the one who needs to go back and read that post again. The person was taking issue with what I wrote, not to what was written by the person to whom I was responding.

Quote:
"I was wondering how long it would be before someone just had to sneak in a little retort. The way it stays argument free is in choosing not argue the points here. I've read a lot of stuff I disagree with hetr, but if we're going to argue about, for example whether "Republicans are wacko" that should happen on another thread. I agree, it's not fair for someone to use this thread to "take potshots" but in order for the thread to serve what I understant to be it's intended purpose, we have to grit our teeth and ignore the occasional cheap shot."
The person was referring to me, not the person who called Republicans "wacko".

I was the one who used the term "argument free", not the person to whom I was replying.

Also, consider the word "retort", which is defined thusly:

Retort's definition is "To reply, especially to answer in a quick, caustic, or witty manner".

I was the only one doing any "retorting". The comment I was responding to was an insult, not a retort.
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Old 07-26-2006, 07:49 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by Harry Vest
Hitler was indeed into the Occult - in fact Black Magic played it's part with many of the top ranking Nazi's. I really don't want to start something here but many of Hitlers henchmen were woman hating homosexuals (coincidentaly so are many of the Islamic militants - not all mind you - but many). This is not saying anything against typical gay males but what I am talking about here is much more sinister i.e. The Taliban
A good friend of mine was sent over to Afghanistan back in 2003 and had lots of contact with these guys - his take on it was that there were "way more homo's than I ever thought there would be" amongst the Taliban he helped capture. He was quite shocked actually - I must say I always suspected this though. Any male who's gonna whip a female for showing her ankle is a sick and twisted individual. Again, I am not saying anything against the typical gay male out there but this kind of thing is like I said before - much more sinister. I better shut up now before this gets out of control.
The homosexuality you speak of in Afghanistan is cultural...been part of that region way before Islam got there. Moslems in these regions have integrated the cultural practice in a manner that is not deemed "unIslamic." The Taliban, and their extreme fundamentalist interpretation of Islamic traditions, had banned any acts deemed homosexual. Since the Taliban were ousted, this practice has been practiced as it was before.

http://www.globalgayz.com/g-afghanistan.html

"... (3) Sex between men is "frowned upon, but accepted" so long as the participants also marry and have children; and also if they keep quiet about this activity. (4) The key distinction is not hetero vs. homosexual but active vs. passive; men are expected to seek penetration (with wives, prostitutes, other males, animals); the only real shame is attached to serving in the female role. (5) Youths usually serve in the female role and can leave behind this shame by graduating to the male role. (6) The great Muslim emphasis on family life renders homosexuality far less threatening to Muslim societies than to Western ones (Muslim men seeking formally to marry each other remains unimaginable)."

...

"Whether the activity is mutual or forceful, there is an almost universal attitude in these eastern cultures that such sexual indulgence is not ‘gay’, that is, it's not sex or love between two men who identify as homosexuals. (In Afghanistan it's common for the older participants to be married with kids.) Rather, in a collective mental shell game the meaning of sex is re-framed: heterosexual men engage in homosexual behavior in which the younger guy is not a ‘fem’ but obedient and passive and the older one is not a ‘butch queer’ but assertive and active."
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