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Old 10-11-2006, 11:09 AM   #76
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Why would a person burst open from a fall? I would think that maybe a person would burst open from a fall if he had fallen from a high tree branch from which he had hung himself.
How do you fall head first if your hanging?
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Old 10-11-2006, 11:12 AM   #77
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That standard is the two Cs: Context and Common Sense.

You're right, and common sense and context tells me Jesus didn't fly through the galaxy like Superman and hell isn't in the core of the Earth.
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Old 10-11-2006, 01:54 PM   #78
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


How do you fall head first if your hanging?
If he hit his head on a rock that would burst his head open, and it wouldn't have to be head first.
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Old 10-11-2006, 01:57 PM   #79
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


You're right, and common sense and context tells me Jesus didn't fly through the galaxy like Superman and hell isn't in the core of the Earth.
The Bible doesn't say that Jesus flew through the air like Superman; it says he ascended into the clouds. But even if it did say he flew through the galaxy, why would you think that God in the flesh couldn't fly through the galaxy? Do you believe in a God who is bound by the laws of physics, or in a God who is outside them?
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Old 10-11-2006, 01:59 PM   #80
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar

Do Christians in Austrailia have a different Bible?
I don't understand this; are you from Australia?
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Old 10-11-2006, 04:46 PM   #81
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and it wouldn't have to be head first.
It said he fell headlong, by definition is head first. I mean we're taking it literally right?
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Old 10-11-2006, 04:51 PM   #82
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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


The Bible doesn't say that Jesus flew through the air like Superman; it says he ascended into the clouds. But even if it did say he flew through the galaxy, why would you think that God in the flesh couldn't fly through the galaxy? Do you believe in a God who is bound by the laws of physics, or in a God who is outside them?
My point is not a God that is bound by the laws of physics or not. It's just that your line of logic means he had to ascend into the clouds and keep going until he found this physical place of heaven. And that hell would have to be in the center of the earth.

This is your logic not mine.
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Old 10-11-2006, 04:53 PM   #83
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I don't understand this; are you from Australia?
No I'm just pointing out that heaven would be in a different direction for Australians, it would be up and then take a left, given this very literalist logic.
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Old 10-11-2006, 04:54 PM   #84
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


How do you fall head first if your hanging?
Given that tradition holds that Judas was trying to get Jesus to usher in the Kingdom, and did a poor job of that, it's not surprising that he would do a poor job of hanging himself too.
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Old 10-11-2006, 04:56 PM   #85
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


My point is not a God that is bound by the laws of physics or not. It's just that your line of logic means he had to ascend into the clouds and keep going until he found this physical place of heaven. And that hell would have to be in the center of the earth.

This is your logic not mine.
Christian philosophers hold that Heaven is not literally held in the heavens; however, given the relative inability of the disciples to understand interdimensionality, Jesus most likely ascended to conform to where conventional wisdom said Heaven was at the time.
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Old 10-11-2006, 05:19 PM   #86
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


My point is not a God that is bound by the laws of physics or not. It's just that your line of logic means he had to ascend into the clouds and keep going until he found this physical place of heaven. And that hell would have to be in the center of the earth.

This is your logic not mine.
We know that Heaven is a place. We know that because of all the things that the Bible tells us happened there, like the great war in Heaven, which resulted in Satan being "cast down" from heaven, and other things.

Knowing that it's a place in which God lives, we are left with what I told Deep earlier, that if the omnipotent God didn't want you to find Heaven, you wouldn't.

Also, since God is not bound by the laws of physics, wouldn't it be entirely possible (more likely probable) that he would create a dwelling place that would exist beyond human wisdom and the laws of physics?
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Old 10-11-2006, 05:24 PM   #87
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


It said he fell headlong, by definition is head first. I mean we're taking it literally right?
Ah, but what about the other meanings? It can also mean "In an impetuous manner; rashly" and "uncontrollably forceful or fast", amongst other definitions.

I think I've addressed everything you asked me. You may not agree with my answers, but I have answered them. Now, please address the following, which I asked you several posts ago:


But think about the words "For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form". Does this mean anything other than what it says? Does common sense allow for this to be just an analogy? What could that analogy be? Does any analogy that you could think of make more common sense than the simple face value meaning of "Christ is God in a body"?
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Old 10-11-2006, 05:32 PM   #88
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Originally posted by nathan1977


Christian philosophers hold that Heaven is not literally held in the heavens; however, given the relative inability of the disciples to understand interdimensionality, Jesus most likely ascended to conform to where conventional wisdom said Heaven was at the time.
And here's what I'm getting at. I'm sure there may have been some sign of grand exit, one of which the folks could somehow grasp. Thanks for making the point of conventional wisdom, it's something I've pointed out many times in here to literalist.

But the point that, because he ascended means he still has to have his body makes no sense to me.
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Old 10-11-2006, 05:34 PM   #89
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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


We know that Heaven is a place. We know that because of all the things that the Bible tells us happened there, like the great war in Heaven, which resulted in Satan being "cast down" from heaven, and other things.

Knowing that it's a place in which God lives, we are left with what I told Deep earlier, that if the omnipotent God didn't want you to find Heaven, you wouldn't.

Also, since God is not bound by the laws of physics, wouldn't it be entirely possible (more likely probable) that he would create a dwelling place that would exist beyond human wisdom and the laws of physics?
Well you're getting a little closer to what I've been trying to point out to you, but I still don't think there's any concrete reasoning to believe it's a physical place.
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Old 10-11-2006, 05:37 PM   #90
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I think I've addressed everything you asked me. You may not agree with my answers, but I have answered them. Now, please address the following, which I asked you several posts ago:

Actually, no you keep avoiding the hell question.

Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest

But think about the words "For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form". Does this mean anything other than what it says? Does common sense allow for this to be just an analogy? What could that analogy be? Does any analogy that you could think of make more common sense than the simple face value meaning of "Christ is God in a body"?
I honestly have no problem with this. In fact I believe I stated that this wasn't the issue I had. Yes Christ had a body, but it doesn't mean he has to have one now.
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