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Old 07-30-2002, 08:39 AM   #31
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Originally posted by Sicy
If we banned everyone that was nasty in this forum there would be like 5 people left to post here.

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This is the most accurate statment The Goddess has made in a long time

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Old 07-30-2002, 10:21 AM   #32
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this is nuts

but i'm starting to think its inevitable.

when you enter this forum...remember its name.
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Old 07-30-2002, 10:36 AM   #33
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I love having a good discussion in here- and like the abortion thread i really like it- because im allowed to say what i like and i love seeing what another person thinks- i have never had a fight in here Why cant everyone else jsut be civilised- everyone else will have a different opinion from on you on different subjects- deal with it-deal with it ppl !

I hate when ppl fight
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Old 07-30-2002, 11:19 AM   #34
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Wow, the preponderance of lies, out-of-context quotes, and pissing and moaning from the likes of z edge and Bubba is immature and quite entertaining. For the record: Bubba and z edge dislike me because I refuse to take their conservative philosophies and theories as gospel. Specifically, they dislike me because they somehow think that if I want to express an opinion contrary to their conservative beliefs than it is somehow hateful, disengenuous, and personal. Bubba has relentlessly been attempting to spin the whole "conservatives want to destroy the environment" thing as if I was the member who initiated such talk when in fact it has been established that it was HE who made the remark first...I simply repeated his words (which he repeatedly/conveniently FORGETS to bring up). Secondly, now he thinks that because I and a few other members SUGGEST that it is POSSIBLE (those were my words) that the Bush administration had prior knowledge/involvement in 9/11 that we are somehow guilty of promoting GENOCIDE similar to the plight of the Jews during the Hitler years on this board. Laughable, really. My suggesting that 9/11 MAY have had Bush admin knowledge is admittedly remote and certainly not a theory that will get one widespread support in this country, yet I do believe it is, at the very least, POSSIBLE given the information that exists out there. But you see, Bubba and z edge don't like this SUGGESTION so they therefore try to spin this as if I and others are promoting hate and genocide-which any sane individual here realizes is NOT what we have done. We simply floated an idea/theory contrary to theirs and in true conservative fashion they are trying to suppress our (my) right to free speech and make US out to be the "bad guys."

I'm really not sure what Bubba believes is so overwhelmingly hateful about me stating that I believe Republicans are more "nasty and hypocritical" than Democrats. That is simply my view of the two parties and their operatives...extremely hateful, isn't it? (sarcasm implied for those who need assistance deciphering such comments.)

Bubba, you really need to move on with your life and get over this crusade you have with slandering me, quoting me out of context, putting your "spin" on all my posts, and trying to portray me as some unpatriotic, hatemonger. Shame on you for your public crusade against me, shame on you for trying to control the terms of every debate, shame on you for driving a wedge amongst forum members. I'm afraid that this discussion forum is ruining your health and consumming you...I hope that is not the case.

I honestly find much of Bubba's and z edges rants amusing...I really do laugh quite frequently at your outlandish remarks whose only purpose is to suppress the views/thoughts of those who disagree with you. So WHAT if I believe Republicans are "nasty", so WHAT if I believe they want to "destroy the environment", so WHAT if I believe our government isn't blameless for 9/11,...so WHAT??? At the end of the day it IS JUST SOMEONE'S OPINION!!! The stuff most conservatives float here is GARGAGE in my opinion...yet it hardly affects my personal (real world) life. I don't talk about it at the dinner table with my wife...I don't talk about it at church...or the office...it doesn't consume my every thought...I don't get angry for long periods of time...what DOES consume me is God, my beautiful wife, my family, U2's music and message, the Boston Red Sox, The Dallas Cowboys, whitewater rafting, work, politics, and way down on the list...what some conservative forum member may have said in this discussion forum...because at the END OF MY DAY...I really don't care-it's that simple.

For the record: I have no alter-I don't need to hide behind one. When I've got something to say I say it. I find the alter thing a bit obsessive and dishonest. I mean, take any thread you like here in this particular forum. Let's say I start it with a liberal view. Next thing you know you've got responses floating conservative views from three different "members"...yet they are actually the same views from the SAME member. Why does one do this? Well, I think it is a possible attempt in THEIR mind to even the playing field, possibly, with the liberal members here since they somehow seem to think they (the conservatives) are outnumbered. Secondly, I think it is a means by which they can post hit and run, largely personally degrading attacks, without having to stand up to them. Whatever floats your boat, I guess.

It is my belief that what has transpired over the last few weeks here in cyberspace is purely a reflection of today's politcal climate in the real world, i.e. Republican attack dogs spinning stories and quoting out of context to further their extreme agenda and suppress the opposing view. I'm just trying to provide some balance, expose their tactics, and educate those who are impartial. Bubba has called me, (amongst other things) an "intellectual coward", which is very entertaining. For the record (again) I have point-counterpointed Bubba on EVERY issue/challenge he has thrown my way, from the Laugher curve on down the line (any impartial observer would draw this conclusion). So why would he make such a statement? Answer: It's just what Republicans in this country do when they are on the defensive...they sling mud....twist facts...and attack their opponent to shift the focus away from the actual debate at hand. You see, Bubba, if you want to play fair than I will...but I won't sit back and let you disparage my good name here in your dilusional attempt to silence my progressive voice.

To those who have been following Bubba's relentless demand (for Bubba doesn't "request" anything here) for me to a)explain whether my reply to HIS statement about Republicans wanting to destroy the environment, starve children, and kill the elderly and b)cite examples of this I say: what purpose would this serve? For IF I believe HIS statement and IF I bring forth examples it will only serve to fuel Bubba's ego, increase his blood pressure, and, in true Bubba fashion, he would arbitrarily REJECT my examples as nonsense and "cowardness". So really, NOTHING could be gained from such an exercise EXCEPT to further fuel Bubba's attacks against me and provide him with the satisfaction that his "demand" was met...which I will not do...because I'm not here to satisfy Bubba's demands. If I'm a "coward" for that in Bubba's mind than so be it...it won't affect any aspect of my life.

I have not used profanity here nor (I believe) broken any rules of the Interference agreement while posting in this forum. It is for this reason that I believe the moderators have disregarded Bubba's demand to enforce some sort of actions against me and realize, from the examples offered by Kinpin and others, that I have NOT lobbed hateful remarks at Bubba or z edge. These pleas to the moderators for some sort of action is perplexing when all I've done is offered opinions that a few outspoken forum members don't agree with. I believe the moderators understand this and see how some here are spinning my words in an blatant attempt to not only portray me as hatemonger but in the larger attempt to silence me in this forum. Furthermore, I think they see the overall RIDICULOUSNESS of Bubba's problems with me and Kingpin. Disclaimer: I'm not trying to speak for any of the moderators here-just making my own observations.

Finally, I resent the fact that Bubba and, to a lesser extent z edge, aka Love Muscle, aka Spyplane, have ganged up on me here in an obvious attempt to control the terms of the debate by relentlessly making a distorted, hyperbole laced argument that I am somehow insulting them because I don't agree with their conservative beliefs. Too bad. You don't agree with MY progressive beliefs and you don't see ME pissing and moaning all over the forum about it. As Bono says in "Bad" ...'let it go'. When you are ready to engage in constructive debate and are done publicly smearing and railroading me, than I'm ready...but I'm not holding my breath.
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Old 07-30-2002, 12:19 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by Achtung Bubba
Rono, I DID try the PM route two weeks ago, as I said in the thread above.

Sicy,

I personally am not asking for people to be banned - just that seriously offensive accusations be made carefully, not sarcastically, and not without evidence. In the case of the accusations made by "Like Someone to Blame," I would expect the mods to at least say something like this:

That's a pretty serious accusation. Are you sure you mean that?

That might even be enough to dissuade forum members from making such egregious claims.

Instead, the moderators have closed threads without explaining who is in the wrong. And - despite several requests, both public AND private - the moderators have remained dead silent about Rob's comments.

I ask again, how would the moderators react to another accusation that conservatives or Republicans want to harm the elderly, destory the environment, or do something else along those lines?
First of all...STOP TRYING TO MAKE IT APPEAR AS IF I WAS THE ONE WHO MADE THE ABOVE ACCUSATION...IT WAS Y-O-U and if you are so interested in seeing the mods response than make the accusation again and see what happens.

Egregious claims??? A HUGE stretch of one's imagination I would say and hardly a "pretty serious accusation" as you promote, which probably explains why the moderators have ignored your demands for action. If this was such a "serious" accusation than I guess all members of Congress on both sides of the aisle should be spanked or locked up...for this stuff is floated daily in both chambers, in particular when committee's are in session. I think you will find many people in this country who do in fact believe that Republican policies hurt the environment, harm the elderly etc etc. Hardly an accusation, really, in their minds. Why you are so upset about the statement that YOU originally made is baffling, when it does nothing to attack you personally or your character. True, by saying that Republicans want to destroy the environment etc it lumps ALL Republicans into that category...but rational folk are able to comprehend that a comment such as that doesn't correspond to THEM, the individual. Republicans always accuse the Democrats of trying to ruin the economy with high taxes and big goverment...maybe I should ask to have YOUR views on the economy suppressed here because that is such a wild accusation (imo) that it hurts my feelings?????? See the sheer nonsense of your argument?
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Old 07-30-2002, 12:26 PM   #36
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I'm glad I'm not a mod. Bubba, I really don't understand why you expect them to be the PC Police here, especially when we are talking about ideas/ideologies being attacked, not people on this board. We are all adults here, even if we don't always act that way, and this is just the internet. If you can't handle it, then read something that doesn't offend you so much.

And while you're at it, cry me a river! It's hot and I don't have a pool to swim in.
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Old 07-30-2002, 01:32 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by Like someone to blame
Wow, the preponderance of lies, out-of-context quotes, and pissing and moaning from the likes of z edge and Bubba is immature and quite entertaining. For the record: Bubba and z edge dislike me because I refuse to take their conservative philosophies and theories as gospel. Specifically, they dislike me because they somehow think that if I want to express an opinion contrary to their conservative beliefs than it is somehow hateful, disengenuous, and personal.
If that were true, I'd have these problems with every liberal in this forum. As it is, I only have serious problems with you, melon, and chain - and my problems with these people extend beyond what is said to HOW it is said.

For example, you could have EASILY caused this to end if you would simply answer whether you were being sarcastic. You continue to evade the question.

THAT's disingenuous.

Quote:
Bubba has relentlessly been attempting to spin the whole "conservatives want to destroy the environment" thing as if I was the member who initiated such talk when in fact it has been established that it was HE who made the remark first...I simply repeated his words (which he repeatedly/conveniently FORGETS to bring up).
Funny, I actually DID give my original quote before giving your response. You would know this if A) you actually read what I wrote and B) you weren't on auto-pilot, saying the same thing regardless of what I say.

Quote:
Secondly, now he thinks that because I and a few other members SUGGEST that it is POSSIBLE (those were my words) that the Bush administration had prior knowledge/involvement in 9/11 that we are somehow guilty of promoting GENOCIDE similar to the plight of the Jews during the Hitler years on this board. Laughable, really. My suggesting that 9/11 MAY have had Bush admin knowledge is admittedly remote and certainly not a theory that will get one widespread support in this country, yet I do believe it is, at the very least, POSSIBLE given the information that exists out there. But you see, Bubba and z edge don't like this SUGGESTION so they therefore try to spin this as if I and others are promoting hate and genocide-which any sane individual here realizes is NOT what we have done. We simply floated an idea/theory contrary to theirs and in true conservative fashion they are trying to suppress our (my) right to free speech and make US out to be the "bad guys."
First, you mention here that it's "POSSIBLE given the information that exists out there." Do you EVER provide any information to back up your suggestion. NO, you don't - something that further distinguishes you from KingPin.

And I have been saying that making such claims is fine if you back up what you say: I'm not trying to suppress free speech altogether, just make it difficult to make these empty, offensive accusations WITHOUT proof. Again, you would know THIS if you had been reading what I write.

Second, whether or not you believe that Bush's involvement in 9/11 is definitive or simply "possible," it confirms that you believe this guy and his party are capable of unbelievably evil acts. It makes me wonder whether you were being genuine in suggesting that Republicans want to starve the young, etc.

(Of course, I CONTINUE to wonder, because you CONTINUE to evade the question of whether you were being sarcastic.)

Quote:
I'm really not sure what Bubba believes is so overwhelmingly hateful about me stating that I believe Republicans are more "nasty and hypocritical" than Democrats. That is simply my view of the two parties and their operatives...extremely hateful, isn't it? (sarcasm implied for those who need assistance deciphering such comments.)
There's nothing extremely hateful in that; I was simply explaining what led me to remind this forum that, in 94-95, Democrats accused Republican congressmen of wanting to the kill the elderly, etc:

1) You asserted that Republicans are the more nasty of the two parties.

2) I reminded you of the DEMOCRAT accusation of Republicans wanting to kill the elderly, etc.

3) Unbelievably, you AGREED with the accusation.

Quote:
Bubba, you really need to move on with your life and get over this crusade you have with slandering me, quoting me out of context, putting your "spin" on all my posts, and trying to portray me as some unpatriotic, hatemonger. Shame on you for your public crusade against me, shame on you for trying to control the terms of every debate, shame on you for driving a wedge amongst forum members. I'm afraid that this discussion forum is ruining your health and consumming you...I hope that is not the case.
And shame on you for not answering whether you were being sarcastic.

Quote:
I honestly find much of Bubba's and z edges rants amusing...I really do laugh quite frequently at your outlandish remarks whose only purpose is to suppress the views/thoughts of those who disagree with you. So WHAT if I believe Republicans are "nasty", so WHAT if I believe they want to "destroy the environment", so WHAT if I believe our government isn't blameless for 9/11,...so WHAT??? At the end of the day it IS JUST SOMEONE'S OPINION!!!
And my assertion that you DO think Republicans are evil, and that you are an intellectual coward for not owning up to your accusations are "JUST SOMEONE'S OPINION!!!" and YOU seem to get to pretty offended at THAT.

Fact is, there are and should be opinions that should not be expressed - or that MUST be backed up with proof.

Otherwise, what's stopping me from, for example, suggesting that you have a penchant for sexual relations with the dead? Nothing.

Quote:
The stuff most conservatives float here is GARGAGE in my opinion...yet it hardly affects my personal (real world) life. I don't talk about it at the dinner table with my wife...I don't talk about it at church...or the office...it doesn't consume my every thought...I don't get angry for long periods of time...what DOES consume me is God, my beautiful wife, my family, U2's music and message, the Boston Red Sox, The Dallas Cowboys, whitewater rafting, work, politics, and way down on the list...what some conservative forum member may have said in this discussion forum...because at the END OF MY DAY...I really don't care-it's that simple.
Good for you: you're still evading my question.

Quote:
For the record: I have no alter-I don't need to hide behind one. When I've got something to say I say it. I find the alter thing a bit obsessive and dishonest. I mean, take any thread you like here in this particular forum. Let's say I start it with a liberal view. Next thing you know you've got responses floating conservative views from three different "members"...yet they are actually the same views from the SAME member. Why does one do this? Well, I think it is a possible attempt in THEIR mind to even the playing field, possibly, with the liberal members here since they somehow seem to think they (the conservatives) are outnumbered. Secondly, I think it is a means by which they can post hit and run, largely personally degrading attacks, without having to stand up to them. Whatever floats your boat, I guess.
I agree that the use of alters is dishonest. Truthfully, I find it cowardly.

But there's a simple reason conservatives think we're outnumbered: we are.

And posting hit-and-runs under an alter is bad, but so doing so under your original name. I believe you're guilty of the very same act when you refuse to give evidence to back up your claims.

Quote:
It is my belief that what has transpired over the last few weeks here in cyberspace is purely a reflection of today's politcal climate in the real world, i.e. Republican attack dogs spinning stories and quoting out of context to further their extreme agenda and suppress the opposing view. I'm just trying to provide some balance, expose their tactics, and educate those who are impartial. Bubba has called me, (amongst other things) an "intellectual coward", which is very entertaining. For the record (again) I have point-counterpointed Bubba on EVERY issue/challenge he has thrown my way, from the Laugher curve on down the line (any impartial observer would draw this conclusion).
You've countered ALMOST everything. You still avoid the issue of whether you were being sarcastic; I believe the label of intellectual coward fits.


Quote:
So why would he make such a statement? Answer: It's just what Republicans in this country do when they are on the defensive...they sling mud....twist facts...and attack their opponent to shift the focus away from the actual debate at hand. You see, Bubba, if you want to play fair than I will...but I won't sit back and let you disparage my good name here in your dilusional attempt to silence my progressive voice.
Oh, YES, WE REPUBLICANS are mud slinging. Never mind the fact that YOU DID suggest the accusation that we want to kill the elderly IS TRUE. Never mind the fact that you suspect Bush of allowing 9/11 to occur for the sake of oil interests.

And never mind that an "actual debate at hand" involved yet another attempt to show that Bush is an imbecile, thanks to a verbal misstep on Bush's part - a DEBATE YOU PERSONALLY STARTED.

Quote:
To those who have been following Bubba's relentless demand (for Bubba doesn't "request" anything here) for me to a)explain whether my reply to HIS statement about Republicans wanting to destroy the environment, starve children, and kill the elderly and b)cite examples of this I say: what purpose would this serve? For IF I believe HIS statement and IF I bring forth examples it will only serve to fuel Bubba's ego, increase his blood pressure, and, in true Bubba fashion, he would arbitrarily REJECT my examples as nonsense and "cowardness". So really, NOTHING could be gained from such an exercise EXCEPT to further fuel Bubba's attacks against me and provide him with the satisfaction that his "demand" was met...which I will not do...because I'm not here to satisfy Bubba's demands. If I'm a "coward" for that in Bubba's mind than so be it...it won't affect any aspect of my life.
I appreciate the fact that my requests have not gone completely unnoticed.

But, ONCE AGAIN, you refuse to answer the simple question of whether you were being sarcastic, a question that I think deserves an answer.

Quote:
I have not used profanity here nor (I believe) broken any rules of the Interference agreement while posting in this forum. It is for this reason that I believe the moderators have disregarded Bubba's demand to enforce some sort of actions against me and realize, from the examples offered by Kinpin and others, that I have NOT lobbed hateful remarks at Bubba or z edge.
Other than the suggestions that Republicans want to kill the elderly and wanted 9/11 to happen for the sake of "big oil."

Quote:
These pleas to the moderators for some sort of action is perplexing when all I've done is offered opinions that a few outspoken forum members don't agree with.
That's right, that's ALL you've offered - certainly no evidence to back up your hateful opinions.

Quote:
I believe the moderators understand this and see how some here are spinning my words in an blatant attempt to not only portray me as hatemonger but in the larger attempt to silence me in this forum. Furthermore, I think they see the overall RIDICULOUSNESS of Bubba's problems with me and Kingpin. Disclaimer: I'm not trying to speak for any of the moderators here-just making my own observations.

Finally, I resent the fact that Bubba and, to a lesser extent z edge, aka Love Muscle, aka Spyplane, have ganged up on me here in an obvious attempt to control the terms of the debate by relentlessly making a distorted, hyperbole laced argument that I am somehow insulting them because I don't agree with their conservative beliefs. Too bad. You don't agree with MY progressive beliefs and you don't see ME pissing and moaning all over the forum about it. As Bono says in "Bad" ...'let it go'. When you are ready to engage in constructive debate and are done publicly smearing and railroading me, than I'm ready...but I'm not holding my breath.
You're ready, or so you claim, and yet you are completely unwilling to acknowledge how utterly offensive your accusations have been - and you have been completely unwilling to answer whether or not you were being sarcastic.

"I was being sarcastic."

"I was being genuine."

NEITHER of these statements are to much to expect.
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Old 07-30-2002, 01:40 PM   #38
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Bah blah blah blah blah blah blah.
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Old 07-30-2002, 01:48 PM   #39
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Originally posted by Like someone to blame
First of all...STOP TRYING TO MAKE IT APPEAR AS IF I WAS THE ONE WHO MADE THE ABOVE ACCUSATION...IT WAS Y-O-U and if you are so interested in seeing the mods response than make the accusation again and see what happens.
I did not MAKE THE ACCUSATION. I presented - and backed up with evidence - the fact that Democrats have made the accusation. YOU first made the accusation, by suggesting that it's ACTUALLY the case.

BIG difference, something that intelligent people ought to be able to see.

Quote:
Egregious claims??? A HUGE stretch of one's imagination I would say and hardly a "pretty serious accusation" as you promote, which probably explains why the moderators have ignored your demands for action. If this was such a "serious" accusation than I guess all members of Congress on both sides of the aisle should be spanked or locked up...for this stuff is floated daily in both chambers, in particular when committee's are in session. I think you will find many people in this country who do in fact believe that Republican policies hurt the environment, harm the elderly etc etc. Hardly an accusation, really, in their minds. Why you are so upset about the statement that YOU originally made is baffling, when it does nothing to attack you personally or your character. True, by saying that Republicans want to destroy the environment etc it lumps ALL Republicans into that category...but rational folk are able to comprehend that a comment such as that doesn't correspond to THEM, the individual. Republicans always accuse the Democrats of trying to ruin the economy with high taxes and big goverment...maybe I should ask to have YOUR views on the economy suppressed here because that is such a wild accusation (imo) that it hurts my feelings?????? See the sheer nonsense of your argument?
Interesting here how you explain how reasonable the accusation really is. A while back, KingPin said that "Anybody who does (accuse the Republicans of mass murder) is clearly ridiculous." You supported KingPin absolutely, saying that "he said it perfectly."

NOW, it's a perfectly reasonable accusation. Interesting.

It demonstrates, I believe, that maybe you weren't being sarcastic after all.

Either way I don't believe Republicans accuse the Democrats of actually trying to ruin the economy. We believe that Democrat policies WILL HURT the economy, but we don't suggest that that was the intended goal. We believe that Democrats use a poor economy to their political advantage, but that doesn't mean they support policies for the PURPOSE of making the economy worse.

I believe that Democrats honestly believe their economic policies ARE effective, that they don't harm the economy. I HONESTLY don't think that they PLAN to ruin the economy.

It's a case of having incorrect theories rather than evil intentions - a FAR cry from suggesting Republicans WANT to destroy the environment, that they won't be happy until the environment is in ruins.

THAT'S the difference.
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Old 07-30-2002, 01:51 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sicy
Bah blah blah blah blah blah blah.
So you ARE here.

ANY possibility you could answer my question?

Let's say, for the sake of argument, that some other liberal on this forum genuinely accuses Republicans of WANTING to kill/harm the elderly, starve children, and destroy the environment (or something equally heinous) - and does so with no substantial proof.

How would the moderators respond?


I think it's becoming perfectly clear how you guys would respond, but I would like an explicit answer.
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Old 07-30-2002, 01:52 PM   #41
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crys

Gonna Fall out the window , true lie
You took my only true life
You feel my heart is going right
Shouldn't be down in the hold right
I think you're gonna shine on bright
shine bright , Love !!!!


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Old 07-30-2002, 02:12 PM   #42
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Bubba my head hurts from reading these essays.

Can you just drop it.
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Old 07-30-2002, 02:31 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sicy
Bubba my head hurts from reading these essays.

Can you just drop it.
That's it. I'm outta here.

z edge has one of my email addresses. If any forum member wants to reach me, you can do so through him.

Mods and admins, you also have an email address of mine. If any of you have anything else to say to me, you know how to reach me.

I've enjoyed many of the discussions here. I hope my occasional thought about U2, and culture in general, has been entertaining. I hope I have been helpful in explaining Christianity and conservatism - that anyone who is still curious about either will keep an open mind and continue his or her investigations.

I would like to thank z edge, Diamond, Bama and the other conservatives (you know who you are) for demonstrating wit and fortitude in continuing to defend our shared beliefs. I believe we ARE right. I wish you luck in your continued efforts, and I would understand if you too found this forum too frustrating.

It's perfectly clear that my political beliefs are not welcome here.

I will no longer waste my time here.

I'm gone. I'm not coming down.
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