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Old 06-30-2008, 03:48 AM   #16
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The thing is McCain's supposedly clear-cut plan for what how he's "going to deal" with the energy crisis is really just campaign promises. There's only so much he CAN do anyway--he has to work with Congress.
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Old 06-30-2008, 07:30 AM   #17
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The thing is McCain's supposedly clear-cut plan for what how he's "going to deal" with the energy crisis is really just campaign promises. There's only so much he CAN do anyway--he has to work with Congress.

And I would say he is the more experienced candidate at working with Congress. Your statement is true for both of the candidates.
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Old 06-30-2008, 04:58 PM   #18
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I have NO complaints about my PRIUS.

Everybody I know is extremely satisfied with their Prius.

I have not heard one regret.

They are hybrids, so they require less batteries than an all electric, carbon neutral car.

McCain $300,000,000. prize for the killer app, a light weight- high power battery can give us a great benefit. That and the nuclear power plants are very practical in moving us off petroleum and towards carbon neutral.

The repeal of the Federal moratorium on off-shore drilling. Would put it in the hands of the States. It would be up to the will of the people in the States.
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Old 06-30-2008, 05:19 PM   #19
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And I would say he is the more experienced candidate at working with Congress. Your statement is true for both of the candidates.
I wouldn't dispute either statement. McCain has shown a willingness to cross the aisle in his years in the Senate. However, Obama has also demonstrated a willingness to do so as well--after all this is a guy that has talked about having Republicans on his cabinet. McCain has done it longer yes, but for me to vote for McCain I'd have to be convinced--among other things--that Obama was utterly incapable or highly unlikely to have the skills to work with Congress. If someone would care to make that argument, I'd be interested to hear it.
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Old 06-30-2008, 05:32 PM   #20
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So Mr. Obama criticizes McCain because it would take years to develop offshore drilling, but Obama's own policies will take decades to implement?

Mr. Obama's policies are long-run sustainable, whereas Mr. McCain's are not. fossil fuels are not sustainable. they are finite.


[q]Subsidizing corn to run our SUVs, rather than to feed the country? Has he been to the grocery store lately $$$$$ ? McCain does not support these subsidies or the shameless pandering to the Midwest.[/q]


while i do believe that Obama is a bit too close to Big Corn formy taste, this misunderstands corn subsidies work. food isn't expensive because American farmers can't make enough, rather, they make far, far too much.



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I'm also waiting for Mr. Obama to announce his windfall profits tax on the financial and pharmecutical industries, whose profit margins have consistently topped energy companies. How does Mr. Obama decide who is making too much money?

this is a good question, but it seems like taxes are a more realistic plan than McCain's glorified science fair.
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Old 06-30-2008, 05:43 PM   #21
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Why am I comparing them? Because this is what the candidates are discussing. Mr. Obama is saying "NO, WE CAN'T!" to many different options. Drilling offshore, clean coal, nuclear power, etc. "NO, WE CAN'T!"

do you really think the options you enumerated above are remotely as good as solar, wind, and electric power? it seems that Mr. Obama has a vastly more long-sighted energy policy that hasn't been written by Big Oil, as contrasted to, say, Mr. Cheney. the greatest error of the 21st century has been this administration's move to establish a quasi-American empire in the middle of Mesopotamia in order to "secure" middle eastern oil and continue our heroin like dependence on this product. $100bn a year invested in the above industries -- taking your free market approach, too, something which a measly $300m science fair prize has little to do with -- would have done much better investment in this country's future security.



[q]Mr. Obama is saying "YES, WE CAN!" to delivering subsidies which inevitably go to rich multinational corporations in the Midwest, to grow corn. To run our vehicles rather than to feed us. "YES, WE CAN!" to coercing auto companies into increased fuel mileage standards, while the free market and consumers are already responding to this issue much earlier than Mr. Obama.[/q]


could you unpack this? it strikes me as quite contradictory at the moment.


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"YES, WE CAN!" to punititive taxes on energy companies, who provide us with a vital resource, and operate in a world oil market, including booming economies like China and India. While other American industries are earning much higher profit margins than energy companies, we should levy additional taxes on big oil? Shouldn't we encourage more exploration, more innovation, more anything that would keep this economy moving?

should we continue to give our oil company billions upon billions of tax breaks? should we start more wars on their behalf? is it alright with you that oil companies spend upwards of $400m lobbying Congress to pass energy legislation that's good for earth raping oil? while i might agree with you on a the uselessness of a windfall tax, it seems that these welfare queen companies don't need quite as much assistance as they get.

just imagine what wind could do with $15bn in tax incentives per year.
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Old 06-30-2008, 07:03 PM   #22
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Subsidizing corn to run our SUVs, rather than to feed the country? Has he been to the grocery store lately $$$$$ ? McCain does not support these subsidies or the shameless pandering to the Midwest.
What does this have to do with grocery costs? Grocery costs are raising due to fuel costs and the cracking down on illegal labor. And it's not just the Midwest, it's farmers from all over. Farmers are changing their crops, mostly due to the fact that they have a guaranteed price with corn, but most of what they are exchanging is cotton(at least here in Texas).

Technology with ethanol is changing as well, now they believe they can use the stalk and husk for fuel and save the corn for food. If this is the case, conservatives are going to have even less to complain about...
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Old 06-30-2008, 07:16 PM   #23
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About 5% of the world's corn supply goes to producing bio fuels - representing a whopping three years of growth in typical crop production, according to Elam.

"Corn will have to go to at least $8 a bushel to squeeze out enough food use to keep up with corn for ethanol," he said. "Food prices will be significantly impacted by corn if RFS goes to 10.5 billion gallons for 2009."

How significantly? Collins said food costs could rise 23% to 35% above the normal annual inflation rate of 2.5% over the next two to three years if the RFS mandates are not reduced. Elam said food price inflation rate could go as high as 7% without a mandate reduction.

The USDA also maintains ethanol has an impact on food prices, even if it is an indirect link.

"Higher ethanol production definitely and directly raises the price of corn," said USDA economist Ephraim Leibtag. "Higher corn prices have an impact on food prices on the retail level."

By contrast, if the government were to reduce the RFS by just half, both Elam and Collins agree that corn prices would fall $2 a bushel, which could save more than $9 billion in feed and food costs.
Here is the article Ethanol eyed as culprit in food price spike - Jun. 27, 2008


You Obama people - wake and smell the corn syrup.

This week I am about 55% leaning to voting for McCain. I can say those Bush tax cuts he supports are bullshit, I know in a Democratic Congress, they will expire. Good riddance.


Can't you Obama people at least say his energy policies (as thin as they are) are not all good.

Especially leaning and relying so much on corn / ethanol.
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Old 06-30-2008, 07:24 PM   #24
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Can't you Obama people at least say his energy policies (as thin as they are) are not all good.
my.barackobama.com | New Energy for America


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He wants to expand domestic oil exploration to the outer continental shelf.
You might have to wait 10 years to see the first drop of oil from there - offshore drilling is sloooow.
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Old 06-30-2008, 07:26 PM   #25
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I am deeply concerned by one of the above posts, you have to put your hope in change you can believe in with faith.

Hydrocarbons are going to be used for decades to come, the environmental footprint has to be reduced and carbon dioxide already in the atmosphere needs to be put into some sink. As worrying as the monopoly on energy would be I really like Craig Venter speculative biological solution of carbon fixing synthetic bacteria.
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Old 06-30-2008, 07:29 PM   #26
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I have looked at that

it does not say much
it is really silly


I was at about 53% leaning Obama a couple weeks back

then I started reading his website and listening to him and reading his speeches and remarks ( I thought I should go straight to the source )
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Old 06-30-2008, 08:00 PM   #27
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Here is the article Ethanol eyed as culprit in food price spike - Jun. 27, 2008


You Obama people - wake and smell the corn syrup.
There's some interesting math happening in that article. Only 5% of the world's corn is used and it is somehow making everyone pay more? Especially since the production of corn has risen.

That being said, I don't think Ethanol is the way to go unless these new break throughs are true. But it's a much much better alternative than offshore drilling.
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Old 06-30-2008, 08:10 PM   #28
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just imagine what wind could do with $15bn in tax incentives per year.

Guess which democrat and Obama supporter does not support the windmills being put up in MA?

Ahhh its all water under the bridge.
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Old 06-30-2008, 08:14 PM   #29
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Going back and rereading it, there are some good things in Obama's plan.

And with a Democratic Congress those things should pass.

Is Obama against Offshore Drilling?



from his website \/
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The Next 10 Years of Oil

3 million barrels of oil savings.

Plan will reduce U.S. oil consumption by about 3 million barrels of oil per day by 2018.

Supports new development on existing leases, which could nearly double total U.S. oil production, and increase natural gas production by 75 percent.
or just new leases.

There are plenty of off shore leases that can still be developed, does he want it doubled?
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Old 06-30-2008, 08:17 PM   #30
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Guess which democrat and Obama supporter does not support the windmills being put up in MA?

Ahhh its all water under the bridge.
A good portion of his base

will fight wind mills

turns birds into turkey burgers

they make noise pollution

and are ugly, when they are put out in the beautiful open spaces that we all cherish
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