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Old 04-21-2005, 09:15 AM   #16
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Originally posted by melon


In short, everyone is reduced to a stereotype in the media.

Melon
Good points, melon.
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Old 04-21-2005, 09:23 AM   #17
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One thing I don't like is that many Christians seem to place homosexuality on a level much lower than other sins. Why for instance, if someone considers homosexuality a sin, does that perosn pay so much attention to it, as if it is somehow worse than adultery or sleeping with multiple partners? It's not worse; in fact, if I were to make a judgment, I'd say adultery is much worse.

Now that I think of it, I can understand why many homosexuals think that Christians are hateful. The " spiritual rednecks" among us holler on and on about homosexuality and spew forth names and insults, then go to their mistresses' houses and cheat on their wives!

That is deplorable, but it is not the way of Christ. That is not what Christ would have us do. I don't believe that most Christians are that way, and i highly doubt the claims of Christianity by those who act that way. Those people are the most vocal, and that paints a horrible picture of the rest of us.
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Old 04-21-2005, 10:24 AM   #18
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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


Watched any sitcoms or dramas lately, Irvine?

oh, you know, the usual: Joan of Arcadia, 7th Heaven, and i've been loving this "Revelations" mini-series on NBC.
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Old 04-21-2005, 10:28 AM   #19
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Or does the simple act of believing that homosexuality is wrong qualify as "hate-slinging"?

yes. you are cutting to the very core of my being and calling my deepest longings, desires, and vulnerabilities "wrong." homosexuality is exactly the same as heterosexuality, only with the same gender instead of the opposite. it comes into being naturally, through no choice at all, and is as profound, meaningful, petty, and complicated as heteroseuxal love. no scientist, no psychologist, no one who grounds their opinions in facts instead of beliefs would agree with you.

and, sadly, you seem much more respectful than the "Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve" crowd. i don't believe you mean to be hateful, but your beliefs give creedence and credibility to those who do hate.
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Old 04-21-2005, 10:31 AM   #20
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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest
One thing I don't like is that many Christians seem to place homosexuality on a level much lower than other sins. Why for instance, if someone considers homosexuality a sin, does that perosn pay so much attention to it, as if it is somehow worse than adultery or sleeping with multiple partners? It's not worse; in fact, if I were to make a judgment, I'd say adultery is much worse.

Now that I think of it, I can understand why many homosexuals think that Christians are hateful. The " spiritual rednecks" among us holler on and on about homosexuality and spew forth names and insults, then go to their mistresses' houses and cheat on their wives!

That is deplorable, but it is not the way of Christ. That is not what Christ would have us do. I don't believe that most Christians are that way, and i highly doubt the claims of Christianity by those who act that way. Those people are the most vocal, and that paints a horrible picture of the rest of us.


agreed. i posted this in another thread, but it bears repeating here:


"What's maddening about this pope's signature gay bashing is this: When the pope — the dead one, the next one, the one after that — says something stupid about homosexuality, straight folks take it to heart. The church's efforts have helped defeat gay rights bills, led to the omission of gays and lesbians from hate-crime statutes, and helped to pass anti-gay-marriage amendments. But when a pope says something stupid about heterosexuality, straight Americans go deaf. And this pope had plenty to say about heterosexual sex — no contraceptives, no premarital sex, no blowjobs, no jerkin' off, no divorce, no remarriage, no artificial insemination, no blowjobs, no three-ways, no swinging, no blowjobs, no anal. Did I mention no blowjobs? John Paul II had more "no's" for straight people than he did for gays. But when he tried to meddle in the private lives of straights, the same people who deferred to his delicate sensibilities where my rights were concerned suddenly blew the old asshole off. Gay blowjobs are expendable, it seems; straight ones are sacred." - Dan Savage
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Old 04-21-2005, 12:00 PM   #21
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Originally posted by Irvine511



oh, you know, the usual: Joan of Arcadia, 7th Heaven, and i've been loving this "Revelations" mini-series on NBC.
I like Joan, but if you're implying that 7th Heaven is a "Christian" show, I would disagree.
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Old 04-21-2005, 12:05 PM   #22
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Doesn't everyone kinda think that their own special affiliation is the last acceptable prejudice? I mean, if it's important to you, you'll pay more attention to how it's portrayed.
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Old 04-21-2005, 12:07 PM   #23
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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


I like Joan, but if you're implying that 7th Heaven is a "Christian" show, I would disagree.
Why?
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Old 04-21-2005, 12:07 PM   #24
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Originally posted by Irvine511



yes. you are cutting to the very core of my being and calling my deepest longings, desires, and vulnerabilities "wrong."
Why does that bother you? I don't even know you. If you don't think it's wrong, just go on with it. I'm not standing uop shouting in your face "You're wrong, you're going to hell", blah blah blah. I have my opinion about the rightness/wrongness of it, and if you ask me, I'll tell you. That's my right. If you're comfortable with who you are, you shouldn't care at all what I think.

Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
homosexuality is exactly the same as heterosexuality, only with the same gender instead of the opposite.
Technically, it's not the same thing, Irvine. Men and women are physically built to be compatible sexually/reproductively.

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Originally posted by Irvine511
it comes into being naturally, through no choice at all, and is as profound, meaningful, petty, and complicated as heteroseuxal love. no scientist, no psychologist, no one who grounds their opinions in facts instead of beliefs would agree with you.
Don't get me wrong, Irvine. Just because I think it's wrong doesn't mean that I think a gay person has just "willy nilly" chosen to be gay. I think that some make a conscious decision to be gay, but not most.

However, I also don't think that God made anyone gay.

I'm not going to get into why people are homosexuals, because you most definitely would not agree with me.
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Old 04-21-2005, 12:09 PM   #25
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Why?
Well, let's see - we've got a dad who is a pastor who hardly ever talks about God. How realistic is that?

Also, Christianity or not aside, the show is boring. I stopped watching 4 or 5 years ago, when it started to be the "revolving boyfriends" show.
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Old 04-21-2005, 12:10 PM   #26
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Originally posted by stammer476
Doesn't everyone kinda think that their own special affiliation is the last acceptable prejudice? I mean, if it's important to you, you'll pay more attention to how it's portrayed.
I think this is very true to a point.
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Old 04-21-2005, 12:14 PM   #27
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Originally posted by stammer476
Doesn't everyone kinda think that their own special affiliation is the last acceptable prejudice? I mean, if it's important to you, you'll pay more attention to how it's portrayed.
Yes because everyone would like to be a victim to get the sympathy vote, if I'm to be harsh, when truthfully I really do believe we're all in this together, it is however always a good debate
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Old 04-21-2005, 12:17 PM   #28
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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


Well, let's see - we've got a dad who is a pastor who hardly ever talks about God. How realistic is that?

Also, Christianity or not aside, the show is boring. I stopped watching 4 or 5 years ago, when it started to be the "revolving boyfriends" show.
I use to help watch a friends family and they loved this show. So the only time I've really watched it is when I babysit. To me it's far too saccharin, I mean the family deals with a friend getting pregnant, a family member in trouble, and an uncle losing a job and they solve it with a little red bow tied on top in less than an hour of show. But the episodes I've seen they do talk about God; God in marriage, how God feels about pre-marital sex, etc.
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Old 04-21-2005, 02:26 PM   #29
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Why does that bother you? I don't even know you. If you don't think it's wrong, just go on with it. I'm not standing uop shouting in your face "You're wrong, you're going to hell", blah blah blah. I have my opinion about the rightness/wrongness of it, and if you ask me, I'll tell you. That's my right. If you're comfortable with who you are, you shouldn't care at all what I think.



Technically, it's not the same thing, Irvine. Men and women are physically built to be compatible sexually/reproductively.



Don't get me wrong, Irvine. Just because I think it's wrong doesn't mean that I think a gay person has just "willy nilly" chosen to be gay. I think that some make a conscious decision to be gay, but not most.

However, I also don't think that God made anyone gay.

I'm not going to get into why people are homosexuals, because you most definitely would not agree with me.


you're not a homosexual -- how could you possibly know "why" people are homosexuals?

and the whole natural sex-role thing is bunk. yes, the majority of people are straight, and the reproductive aspect of heterosexual sex is a good thing, but simply because there are variations and differences doesn't mean that they are any less worthy or worthwhile than the norm. and, yes, it is the same -- homosexuals are constitutively, which is to say emotionally and physically, attracted to the same gender in the way in which heterosexuals are constitutively attracted to the different gender.

it does matter what you think: your opinion contributes to a climate where homosexuals are discriminated against, both legislatively and socially, and violence is very clearly a concern. your opinion, which is grounded in faith not science, makes me and millions others less safe and continues to make it okay to treat 5% or more of the population like 2nd class citizens.
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Old 04-21-2005, 02:44 PM   #30
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Originally posted by Irvine511
it does matter what you think: your opinion contributes to a climate where homosexuals are discriminated against, both legislatively and socially, and violence is very clearly a concern. your opinion, which is grounded in faith not science, makes me and millions others less safe and continues to make it okay to treat 5% or more of the population like 2nd class citizens.
Nonsense, Irvine. Utter and complete nonsense.

I have never treated any homosexual with contempt, have never commited violence against any homosexual, and do not treat homsexuals as "2nd class citizens"; nor have I ever urged anyone to treat homosexuals that way. My belief that homosexuality is wrong doesn't contribute to any of the above. If you want to blame someone, blame those who commit those acts against you, not me.

You want to have your belief that homosexuality is not wrong, but if anyone has a dissenting opinion, you blame them for the wrongs done against homosexuals.
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