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Old 10-28-2002, 11:35 PM   #61
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I remember , i talked with 37 yeah old woman ( jewish) , when i asked her , what she thinks about palestinians - one word came from her mouth " Animals " , it was the most non-explicit word from her mouth about them . I think i know , who invented Nazism . Maybe Not .

And i still think that country called Israel will bring much more suffer , pain and agony to ALL people in the area then peace , Love and Justice .

Some people , you talk to them , they don't want to hear you , they keep looking at others as dead corps , enemies , rats , shit , junk . this concerns all of us .

This is my sincere opinion , i have nothing against jews and this is not anti-jewish or nazi post .

This is what i feel .
Please tell or explain me : what was the reason for Israel to be constructed in that area ????
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Old 10-29-2002, 12:35 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally posted by pinkfloyd
I remember , i talked with 37 yeah old woman ( jewish) , when i asked her , what she thinks about palestinians - one word came from her mouth " Animals " , it was the most non-explicit word from her mouth about them .
I hate it when people oversimplify a situation based on what they heard one person say. You're going to have to talk to a lot more Jewish people before you start making gross generalizations about how they think. They're a diverse group of people you know, even the Israelis...
Also you don't mention in what context she said something like that; if one of her loved ones has been injured/killed in an attack, it is easier to understand where she is coming from (and no, I do not agree with her).

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I think i know , who invented Nazism . Maybe Not .
I find that very offensive...and pointless..and just silly really...

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And i still think that country called Israel will bring much more suffer , pain and agony to ALL people in the area then peace , Love and Justice .
As if Israel is the only thing staying in the way of peace in the Middle East. Let's foget about crazed dictators, fundamentalist terrorist groups, etc. Anyway, Israel is capable of living with its neighbours in peace, it has done so for many years with Egypt and Jordan after having negotiated treaties with real leaders who had a vision for peace, unlike Arafat who is too concerned with saving his own a**.

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Please explain me : what was the reason for Israel to be constructed in that area ????
Please see the previous posts in this thread by STING2 and others.
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Old 10-30-2002, 12:05 PM   #63
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Originally posted by STING2
I'd be careful about defining someone's arguement as not being solid just because they have not cited an internet source. You certainly have not cited every single post you have made at interference, but I'm not going to then say you don't have a solid arguement for that reason alone. Its fine to list sources of info whether they be biased or unbiased and present info to back your arguement up. Whats the point in defining someones arguement as not being solid by a single criteria. Present your information and sources if you have them and make your point and move on. Were getting into the whole clarification thing now. Most post on these discussion boards are uncited and based on the general knowledge one may have gained from looking at multiple sources on a particular topic over several years. One may have read or learned from certain people the information they present here and may not be able to identify a particular source at the current time for the info and idea's they present. Don't assume that just because someone has not cited an internet source for their points that they don't have a solid arguement.
This particular point we are revolving around doesn't make much sense to continue discussing since it doesn't add anything to the thread's topic. However it's necessary to clarify that I did not say that you didn't have a solid argument because you didn't cite an internet source. My point is that you refuted my arguments without providing any reason as to why you thought they were wrong other than you disagreed with them. I'm aware that "most posts on these discussion boards are uncited and based on the general knowledge one may have gained from looking at multiple sources on a particular topic over several years and that one may have read or learned from certain people the information they present here and may not be able to identify a particular source at the current time for the info and ideas they present", in fact, as you have correctly said, I did not reference every entry I posted. This is because, as you say, it is sometimes difficult to pinpoint the source even if you are absolutely certain you read the information somewhere and because, unless it is necessary to reinforce an argument or to contend someone else's claims, it makes no sense at all. However when emphatically refuting a post which contains precise and cited information I believe it necessary to present certain references (not necessarily internet ones) to back such a refutation, otherwise the rejection of arguments sounds unwarranted and there's nothing left for the other part to argue or agree with. This prevents debate which is, in my opinion, the main reason which justifies the existence of an open forum. If I'm deprived of the possibility of debating it makes no sense for me to participate in something like this as instead of a dialogue it would become a monologue. I mean it is all right to present information, make your point and move on, if to state your position is all you want. It doesn't seem to be your policy though, as you evidently like to indulge in debate, which is great. It isn't mine either as I don't post just to present my position but rather to debate with people as, further than just listening to other people's views, finding out the reasons why they hold such views, broadens my scope since it allows me to see things from another angle and either reinforce my own opinion or else change it based on new info or a perspective I wasn't aware of.

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In my opinion I would not automatically label a source that is from a citizen of Israel or an Israely organization as a Zionist source.
Why not? What's wrong with it? I don't find the term Zionist to have any particular negative connotation - it's simply indicative of sources/people favourable to the process of creation of the state of Israel the way it was and its policy of continuity along the lines it has. It's true that not every Israeli or Israeli organisation is Zionist in the pure sense of the term. However whenever I have used the term it was meant to express what I defined as Zionist.

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The UN source is great. But I would not present it as the Gospel or that it is entirely free of Bias, the report itself that is.
I did not say it is the "gospel" or the only valid source on the subject, I simply presented it as a source which I believe to be within the obvious limits of what can be considered free of bias, objective. If you don't feel it is, it is perfectly OK. I was only curious to find out what parameters you take into account to consider a source unbiased since it seems to me from what I've read from you on this and other threads that you deem biased all sources which aren't in sync with your own views. This is not to attack you but rather to be able to understand what you mean by "biased".

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I never said "try telling an Israely". Look back at that post where I first mentioned Rainbow.
Your exact quote is "try exlpaining that to our fellow Interferencer RAINBOW who lives in Israel". Is it that much different to have the need of making a point of it?
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Old 10-30-2002, 01:29 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally posted by pinkfloyd
I remember , i talked with 37 yeah old woman ( jewish) , when i asked her , what she thinks about palestinians - one word came from her mouth " Animals " , it was the most non-explicit word from her mouth about them . I think i know , who invented Nazism . Maybe Not .
YOU BETTER EXPLAIN THIS COMMENT AND FAST!!!!!

After reading your broken-English post, I am hoping that I have lost something in what you were trying to say. Please tell me I am right. If however you decide to tell me that you think the Jews "invented" Naziism

YOU BETTER GIVE A GOOD GODDAMNED EXPLANATION FOR YOUR COMMENT!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 10-30-2002, 02:14 PM   #65
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pinkfloyd throws the word "nazi" around this forum quite often and very casually. I am surprised he has gotten away with it this far. It is not the only controversial word he uses either. I can see where some people would have the opinion that pinkfloyd is offensive.

~U2Alabama
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Old 10-30-2002, 04:49 PM   #66
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First of all , i ' m not against jews ( i have thier blood in my veins ) , i never meant to say harsh words or to hurt somebody here , ALright !!!
However , some political views by certain jews , i find really offensive towards other nationalities , and i reallly don't like them . I don't understand why people should differ each other by color of thier pants or skin . Nazism was not inveted by jews , but by all people .
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Old 10-30-2002, 04:54 PM   #67
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Official apologise

OK OK , i apologise , for my 1st post in this thread , ok
um , frankly i just was shocked by how she spoke about different race that's all .

Peace for all .
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Old 10-30-2002, 06:05 PM   #68
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Ultraviolet7:

I in general agree with you on the whole debate thing, but don't think its right to go around and lable other peoples positions as not solid or weak because they failed in that particular instance to cite a particular source. I clearly stated that I did not have enough time to respond in that post.

Thanks for clarifying the Zionist thing.

I don't think its fair to say that I deem all sources with views different from my own as biased. I could certainly make the same generalization about you based on things you have posted, but I'm not going to do that. Such labling and generalizations, in my opinion, don't contribute to the main topic of the thread.

I think raw statistical information has a good chance of being free of bias. The problem is when objective information is surrounded with subjective statements and conclusions based on that objective material. Someone looking at the same objective data might reach a different conclusion based on other things he/she knows personally, from other sources, or other people. Its very difficult to find any source that could not be construed in some way as being biased. At the same time, just because a source is perhaps biased or even clearly biased does not in of itself mean that it is incorrect or not legitimate on a particular issue. If there is time and I have a particular source available, I'll cite it, if I feel it would make an important contribution to the debate. But I'm far more interested in someone's collective knowledge, gained in a variety of ways, than a single particular source.

"try exlpaining that to our fellow Interferencer RAINBOW who lives in Israel" is a lot different from simply saying and claiming that I said "try telling and Israely". I had just had a discussion with RAINBOW and something you said immediately triggered something she had been concerned about. Notice I said "try explaining" not "try telling", there is a difference. In addition, were not talking about any Israely, but a fellow interferencer who often reads your comments on the situation in her country. There is a clear difference and obviously you mis-quoted me. But either way I really don't think its a big deal, so I'd really like to let this one go if you don't mind.

There is actually a book that was supposed to come out this week on many of the things we are talking about, but now I'm not sure if it is coming out or even if it still exists. This an interesting and complex topic and I'll respond when I have the time to give it justice and perhaps a few good sources to look at.
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Old 10-30-2002, 06:53 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally posted by pinkfloyd
First of all , i ' m not against jews ( i have thier blood in my veins ) , i never meant to say harsh words or to hurt somebody here , ALright !!!
However , some political views by certain jews , i find really offensive towards other nationalities , and i reallly don't like them . I don't understand why people should differ each other by color of thier pants or skin . Nazism was not inveted by jews , but by all people .

That is fine, but understand when you post here, you are putting your opinions out there...

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Nazism was not inveted by jews , but by all people
I will still say, however that this is still a shallow statement. Nazism was not invented by all people, but actually by a specific group of people in Germany. The National Socialist party. To say "all people" invented this is a bit unfair as a group of people who had six million of their own slaughtered for no good reason clearly had no role in inventing this.

that's all.
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Old 03-24-2003, 01:49 PM   #70
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Not George Lucas, cool posting... YOu put things down clearly...

I suggest people should watch John Pilgrims videos on the Arab-Israeli conflict....

This is where you can actually see ex-Israeli soldiers say how disgusted they are with their government...

This is where you can see an Israeli father who lost his daughter in a suicide attack, say that the victims in this was his daugter and the suicide bomber, and the agressor was Sharon and his administration.....
Lets stop the terrorism by tracking the agressor....
I pray that no more innocent blood has to be shed...

Peace out,
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Old 03-24-2003, 06:59 PM   #71
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I feel sick now that this thread has re-surfaced...




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Old 03-25-2003, 12:25 PM   #72
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If you are feeling quizy ouizy then don't look at this thread... Truth of the matter of fact is that this is a discussion on the
Arab-Israeli conflict, anyone sane should not feel Happy Go-Lucky about this topic in the first place.
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Old 03-25-2003, 01:52 PM   #73
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discussion and debate educates and broadens the mind.... it can also ultimately lead to peace and resolve.

for some, the Palestinian-Israeli conflict may be a sensitive issue.
those people perhaps should simply stay away from such threads. on the other hand, for those who have any opinions to share, we can together work towards a common understanding, through intelligent yet peaceful debate.
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Old 03-25-2003, 04:46 PM   #74
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I couldn't have put it in better terms....
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Old 03-25-2003, 04:51 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally posted by Amna

I suggest people should watch John Pilgrims videos on the Arab-Israeli conflict....

Peace out,
It's John Pilger (just to clarify in case someone actually goes hunting for this film) and the film is called "Palestine is Still the Issue."
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