the Iraqi insurgency: one 9-11 a week - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 10-31-2005, 11:58 AM   #1
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,499
Local Time: 02:55 PM
the Iraqi insurgency: one 9-11 a week

[q]U.S. Quietly Issues Estimate of Iraqi Civilian Casualties

By SABRINA TAVERNISE
Published: October 30, 2005

BAGHDAD, Iraq, Oct. 29 - In the first public disclosure that the United States military is tracking some of the deaths of Iraqi civilians, the military has released rough figures for Iraqis who have been killed or wounded by insurgents since Jan. 1 last year.

The estimate of dead and wounded Iraqi civilians and security forces was provided by the Pentagon in a report to Congress this month.

It appeared without fanfare in a single bar graph on Page 23 of the document. But it was significant because the military had previously avoided virtually all public discussion of the issue.

The count is incomplete - it provides daily partial averages of deaths and injuries of Iraqis at the hands of insurgents, in attacks like bombings and suicide strikes. Still, it shows that the military appears to have a far more accurate picture of the toll of the war than it has been willing to acknowledge.

"They have begun to realize that when you focus only on the U.S. it gives the impression that the U.S. doesn't care about Iraqis," said Anthony H. Cordesman, a military expert at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, a research group in Washington. "In these kinds of political battles you need to count your allies, not just yourself."

According to the graph, Iraqi civilians and security forces were killed and wounded by insurgents at a rate of about 26 a day early in 2004, and at a rate of about 40 a day later that year. The rate increased in 2005 to about 51 a day, and by the end of August had jumped to about 63 a day. No figures were provided for the number of Iraqis killed by American-led forces.

Extrapolating the daily averages over the months from Jan. 1, 2004, to Sept. 16 this year results in a total of 25,902 Iraqi civilians and security forces killed and wounded by insurgents.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/30/in...civilians.html

[/q]



imagine if the US had such a terrorist casualty rate -- if you adjuste the numbers for imagine an America where 700 civilians or cops are murdered each day. that's one 9/11 a week. and it's getting worse.

how likely is it that a successful transition to constitutional government can be maintained in such a climate?

(am eagerly anticipating the Germany/Japan-in-1945 comparisons)
__________________

__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 10-31-2005, 04:28 PM   #2
ONE
love, blood, life
 
A_Wanderer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wild West
Posts: 12,518
Local Time: 05:55 AM
If we adjust the numbers of those killed and wounded then yes we do get around 680, but gladly it is not one 9-11 a week in Iraq, it is 3000 killed or wounded every year, and that doesn't correct for lulls in violence related to different events.
__________________

__________________
A_Wanderer is offline  
Old 10-31-2005, 04:48 PM   #3
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,499
Local Time: 02:55 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
If we adjust the numbers of those killed and wounded then yes we do get around 680, but gladly it is not one 9-11 a week in Iraq, it is 3000 killed or wounded every year, and that doesn't correct for lulls in violence related to different events.


wow.
__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 10-31-2005, 05:26 PM   #4
Blue Crack Addict
 
verte76's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: hoping for changes
Posts: 23,331
Local Time: 07:55 PM
That's quite a bit of bloodshed.
__________________
verte76 is offline  
Old 11-01-2005, 12:05 AM   #5
She's the One
 
martha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Orange County and all over the goddamn place
Posts: 42,338
Local Time: 11:55 AM
Have we won that war yet?

I realize it hasn't quite been 15 years like Viet Nam, but surely we should have won by now. I mean, we had Right and Truth on our side and they didn't.


Right?
__________________
martha is online now  
Old 11-01-2005, 12:25 AM   #6
ONE
love, blood, life
 
A_Wanderer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wild West
Posts: 12,518
Local Time: 05:55 AM
It has been won as far as foreign troops possibly can against an insurgency without resorting to completely amoral methods. It cannot be "won" (as in a signed declaration of surrender by all jihadist and insurgent groups), it will end with an Iraqisation of the security situation and removal of US troops.
__________________
A_Wanderer is offline  
Old 11-01-2005, 01:19 AM   #7
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: London/Sydney
Posts: 6,608
Local Time: 08:55 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
It has been won as far as foreign troops possibly can against an insurgency without resorting to completely amoral methods. It cannot be "won" (as in a signed declaration of surrender by all jihadist and insurgent groups), it will end with an Iraqisation of the security situation and removal of US troops.
That's got to be the funniest thing I've ever read in here.
__________________
Earnie Shavers is offline  
Old 11-01-2005, 01:23 AM   #8
ONE
love, blood, life
 
A_Wanderer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wild West
Posts: 12,518
Local Time: 05:55 AM
What US forces simply cannot defeat the insurgency outright, the very presence of US forces as moving targets a day trip away from every jihadist in the region means that as long as they are present you will have violence. A national campaign against these murderers however would be much more sucessful ~ just like Vietnamization against the Viet Cong.

US troops out, but not overnight.
__________________
A_Wanderer is offline  
Old 11-01-2005, 09:07 AM   #9
She's the One
 
martha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Orange County and all over the goddamn place
Posts: 42,338
Local Time: 11:55 AM
So, in other words, just like in Viet Nam, we can't win at all.
__________________
martha is online now  
Old 11-01-2005, 09:31 PM   #10
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: London/Sydney
Posts: 6,608
Local Time: 08:55 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
What US forces simply cannot defeat the insurgency outright, the very presence of US forces as moving targets a day trip away from every jihadist in the region means that as long as they are present you will have violence. A national campaign against these murderers however would be much more sucessful ~ just like Vietnamization against the Viet Cong.

US troops out, but not overnight.
I'm still laughing here.
__________________

__________________
Earnie Shavers is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:55 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com