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Old 01-30-2005, 01:49 PM   #16
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Originally posted by PrimaDonna


The problem is the US military is killing resistance fighters who have a legitimate reason to oppose the presence of the US military in Iraq. We call these men "terrorists," but really they are resisting a US-imposed government. I feel sorry for the US service men and women who are sacrificing so much while they probably genuinely feel they are helping the people of Iraq by freeing them...but this is also imposing Western style democracy there, where it isn't unanimously wanted. By killing the "opponents," we are trying to silence a legitimate argument --

"US and British occupation of Iraq is regarded as the re-emergence of the old colonialist practices of the western empires in some quarters. The real ambitions underlying the brutal onslaught are still highly questionable - and then there are the blatant lies over weapons of mass destruction originally used to justify the war. There were no great victory marches by the occupiers, nor were they thrown garlands of flowers and greeted in triumph."
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exer...1F29F72BC5.htm

And "Rather than extremist foreign fighters battling to the death, the marines are mostly finding local men from Falluja who are fighting to defend their city from what they view as an illegitimate occupier. The motivations of these fighters may well be anti-American, but they are Iraqi, not foreign, in origin." http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exer...95D91B83A1.htm
...I liken the Iraqi opposition to the colonial Americans who fought being controlled by the British. I bet there are Iraqi insurgents quoting Patrick Henry right now, saying "Give me liberty or give me death." He fought colonization by the British just as insurgents are fighting foreign control by the Americans (and the British).

It's complicated -- Iraqis suffered a lot under Saddam, so it's great that he's gone -- but it seems that this liberation is being done without looking at the realities on the ground.... http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exer...724CAA7484.htm

Basically what I'm saying is we can't win the peace if we don't look at the legitimate concerns of these insurgents. If we keep passing opponents off just as "people who are trying to kill random Iraqi civilians as well as military personnel" we'll never get to the root of the insurgency and the disasters will go on. You can't kill an ideology by killing people. And by killing tens of thousands of Iraqis for dubious reasons is only going to strengthen the anti-American ideology.
These so called "resistance fighters" spend their time trying to kill as many civilians as they possibly can. The United Nations has approved the operation in Iraq which is being carried out by a coalition of nations with the help of the Iraqi people.

Democracy is wanted in Iraq where today over 60% of the registered voters are voting in the election!

In killing the "resistance" the United States, other nations and the Iraqi people are preventing a small group of people from imposing their radical idea's and dictatorship on the rest of the people in Iraq. You may not kill an ideology, but you can prevent it from taking control of a country or preventing the people of that country from moving foward with democracy.

Afghanistan is already a very different place than it was four years ago, and Iraq is moving into a new world as well.

The removal of Saddam was an absolute necessity for the security and stability of the region and the world and the best government to replace that evil regime is a democracy where for the first time, the people of Iraq will be able to decide their future.

The resistance fighters are indeed terrorist! How could anyone bombing unarmed civilians at a polling place not be considered a terrorist? How could anyone that claims that democracy is against ISLAM and that anyone who chooses democracy will be killed, not be considered a terrorist?
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Old 01-30-2005, 03:50 PM   #17
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Originally posted by melon
With all the violence, I wonder if more expatriates will vote than local Iraqis.

Melon
Care to tweak your statement?.. and by tweak I mean rephrase.

.Nostradamus
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Old 01-31-2005, 04:30 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by PrimaDonna


Basically what I'm saying is we can't win the peace if we don't look at the legitimate concerns of these insurgents. If we keep passing opponents off just as "people who are trying to kill random Iraqi civilians as well as military personnel" we'll never get to the root of the insurgency and the disasters will go on. You can't kill an ideology by killing people. And by killing tens of thousands of Iraqis for dubious reasons is only going to strengthen the anti-American ideology.
I can think of a couple "root causes" of the insurgency. Neither of them seems particularly legitimate to me.
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Old 01-31-2005, 04:30 PM   #19
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Originally posted by PrimaDonna



>> * The American people should be told the truth that we are occupying Iraq, not liberating it.
* Elections held under occupation do not have relevance to democracy.
* What we are doing in Iraq amounts to killing our opponents and
then getting those persons "elected" who support us. These "voters" are
America's people, not the people of Iraq.
* Recently we destroyed an entire city which opposed us. It's meaningless to talk of democracy after that.
* Elections under occupation have been carried out by the Russians in Chechnia and by the Indians in Kashmir. Both have been miserable failures. << (Taken from Dr. Kaukab Siddique's January 18, 2005 radio interview by 850 KOA News Radio, the major news outlet in Denver, Colorado)
Utter nonsense. Point by point.
*We liberated Iraq from this evil dictator Saddam Hussein. We continue to liberate Iraq from those who would enslave them. You may technically call this an occupation while we're attempting to root out thugs.

*Who wrote this pearl of wisdom? Sounds like a Ted Kennedy talking point. Sunday's election is proof that this election was relevant. Members of the elected parties will construct the Iraqi constitution. Then they'll vote again to ratify it. This will also be relevant.

* Utter fucking nonsense.

* We cleared out an entire city to find and kill the enemy. Now for those who need a definition, the enemy is not someone who merely "opposes" us, but someone who shoots at us.

* I can't speak for Russia and India nor would I want to

I have to conclude that Dr. Kaukab Siddique is full of shit. (Pardon my Flemish)
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Old 01-31-2005, 04:35 PM   #20
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Originally posted by Nostradamus
Care to tweak your statement?.. and by tweak I mean rephrase.
I see you didn't read my follow up statement:

"Well, I most earnestly wish the Iraqis luck and hope violence can be reduced to a minimum."

But the least you could have done was owe up to who you were, rather than hide behind an alter.

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