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Old 05-06-2007, 12:40 AM   #1
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The (illegal) American Dream

http://njrereport.com/index.php/2007...merican-dream/

Wonderful. The US housing market is circling the toilet and about to go "bye, bye."
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Old 05-06-2007, 03:39 AM   #2
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Sickening!!! Well good luck collecting from them.
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Old 05-20-2007, 09:18 PM   #3
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Competition and the free market lead to people bettering themselves.
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Old 05-20-2007, 10:35 PM   #4
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There's always someone willing to lend money they will have a hard time recouping, the potential rewards are huge

No sooner than Western countries drop debts in Africa for example, and the Chinese are right there willing to loan out huge amounts of money
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Old 05-20-2007, 11:57 PM   #5
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Re: The (illegal) American Dream

Quote:
Originally posted by MrBrau1
Wonderful. The US housing market is circling the toilet and about to go "bye, bye."
The market is overpriced, much like the irrational exuberance associated with tech stocks seven years ago. It's long overdue for a correction.

As for the article regarding banks pitching loans to illegal immigrants, it's most certainly illegal. But since when has a Republican ever actually enforced laws against a corporation? The Bush Administration's idea of "punishment" in the Microsoft antitrust trial was providing coupons.
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Old 05-21-2007, 09:47 AM   #6
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Illegal aliens should be deported and not given any benefits whatsoever - they only put a strain on the resources of the U.S.

There's absolutely no reason why a citizen of a democratic country can't apply to emmigrate to another democratic country through proper channels.

For example, there's a US embassy and consulate in Mexico, isn't there? Why can't the people just apply for a visa or passport? It's the simplist thing in the world - that's how my family came from Canada to Israel.....we certainly didn't need to stow away in an airplane or on a ship to get here.

What kind of life is it for the illegals who are living in poverty spending their days looking over their shoulders afraid to get discovered? If they want a better life for themselves then let them go through the normal immigration process- what's the big deal?
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Old 05-21-2007, 11:12 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by AchtungBono
they only put a strain on the resources of the U.S.
This is false. Listening to O'Reiley does not make one an expert on the U.S. economy, actually it probably has quite the opposite effect. There are many industries that survive on cheap labor, how is it a strain on these industries?


Quote:
Originally posted by AchtungBono

There's absolutely no reason why a citizen of a democratic country can't apply to emmigrate to another democratic country through proper channels.

For example, there's a US embassy and consulate in Mexico, isn't there? Why can't the people just apply for a visa or passport? It's the simplist thing in the world - that's how my family came from Canada to Israel.....we certainly didn't need to stow away in an airplane or on a ship to get here.

What kind of life is it for the illegals who are living in poverty spending their days looking over their shoulders afraid to get discovered? If they want a better life for themselves then let them go through the normal immigration process- what's the big deal?
It's really that easy isn't it? How easy do you think it is for a person living in poverty to afford the proper route to establish citizenship? Or work visa? Please, do tell...
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Old 05-21-2007, 11:35 AM   #8
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^ Nah BVS, it's wicked easy. I mean, if it was hard to do I'm sure people would feel the need to enter illegally, chance getting caught, get screwed over & sold into slavery/prostitution in exchange for help entering the country.

Oh wait, they do that. And I'm sure it's free too. Or maybe not.

Something tells me the process of emigrating from Canada to Israel might be just a tad different than from Mexico to the US.
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Old 05-21-2007, 12:06 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


This is false. Listening to O'Reiley does not make one an expert on the U.S. economy, actually it probably has quite the opposite effect. There are many industries that survive on cheap labor, how is it a strain on these industries?




It's really that easy isn't it? How easy do you think it is for a person living in poverty to afford the proper route to establish citizenship? Or work visa? Please, do tell...
As for industries relying on cheap labor.....to me they are no better than those who took advantage of the slave labor in WWII that was available to them just to make a buck.

As for affording it.....the same way they can afford to live as they do now - only LEGALLY. I think that everyone deserves the chance to make a decent and honest living as long as they don't do it at anyone else's expense.....surely you can agree with that.

The immigrants who pay a lot of money to be herded into windowless, airless vans and smuggled across the border can use that same money to go through the legal system of immigration.......

.......and this has nothing to do with my hero......
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Old 05-21-2007, 12:21 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by AchtungBono


As for industries relying on cheap labor.....to me they are no better than those who took advantage of the slave labor in WWII that was available to them just to make a buck.
I'm not arguing the morality of the issue. You said, "they only put a strain" and that's just simply false. They do A LOT of the jobs that you and I wouldn't imagine doing.

Quote:
Originally posted by AchtungBono

As for affording it.....the same way they can afford to live as they do now - only LEGALLY. I think that everyone deserves the chance to make a decent and honest living as long as they don't do it at anyone else's expense.....surely you can agree with that.

The immigrants who pay a lot of money to be herded into windowless, airless vans and smuggled across the border can use that same money to go through the legal system of immigration.......

Where are you getting your information? "The same they can afford to live as they do now - only legally"? That doesn't even make sense. If it was that easy they'd all be legal.

"Pay a lot of money to be hearded"? Once again where do you get this?
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Old 05-21-2007, 01:58 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar

I'm not arguing the morality of the issue. You said, "they only put a strain" and that's just simply false. They do A LOT of the jobs that you and I wouldn't imagine doing.


Where are you getting your information? "The same they can afford to live as they do now - only legally"? That doesn't even make sense. If it was that easy they'd all be legal.

"Pay a lot of money to be hearded"? Once again where do you get this?
Perhaps I expressed myself the wrong way....sometimes I don't articulate my feelings very well in writing...let me try again....

If a person is in the country illegally, their opportunities to find good jobs and make a decent living is very limited (to say the least). As you say, they do a lot of the menial(sp?) tasks that "regular" folks wouldn't. The fact is, if they were here legally then they could look for decent jobs in their own professions - teachers could be teachers, cooks could be cooks, drivers could be drivers...etc. That's why I said that they could afford to come to the states if they went through the normal system of immigration and looked for work in a normal profession.

And..yes....I've seen news items about vans that were found at the US border with the people inside herded like cattle after paying money to so-called "contractors" who took their money and basically left them for dead......and I got this from the news - I didn't make it up.
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Old 05-21-2007, 02:11 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by AchtungBono


If a person is in the country illegally, their opportunities to find good jobs and make a decent living is very limited (to say the least). As you say, they do a lot of the menial(sp?) tasks that "regular" folks wouldn't. The fact is, if they were here legally then they could look for decent jobs in their own professions - teachers could be teachers, cooks could be cooks, drivers could be drivers...etc. That's why I said that they could afford to come to the states if they went through the normal system of immigration and looked for work in a normal profession.
But you're not getting it. It's not easy and affordable to a lot of these people to become citizens. Their move in one out of desperation, they often don't have the time and resources to become citizens. You seem to keep ignoring that.


Quote:
Originally posted by AchtungBono

And..yes....I've seen news items about vans that were found at the US border with the people inside herded like cattle after paying money to so-called "contractors" who took their money and basically left them for dead......and I got this from the news - I didn't make it up.
Yes there are these stories and it's very unfortunate, and often rare. But what you don't get is these folks aren't spending nearly the amount they would need to in order to be here legally, and most of the time it's not the immigrants paying these contractors, it's farmers hiring them or family members that have already made it over in order to bring the rest of their family over.
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Old 05-21-2007, 02:19 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


But you're not getting it. It's not easy and affordable to a lot of these people to become citizens. Their move in one out of desperation, they often don't have the time and resources to become citizens. You seem to keep ignoring that.




Yes there are these stories and it's very unfortunate, and often rare. But what you don't get is these folks aren't spending nearly the amount they would need to in order to be here legally, and most of the time it's not the immigrants paying these contractors, it's farmers hiring them or family members that have already made it over in order to bring the rest of their family over.
I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "affordable". I'm not familiar with the immigration process in the US, I can only go by my own family's experience. Does it cost money to become an American citizen? Besides, I believe that a person can only become a citizen after living in the US five years, is that true? If so, then they can enter the country on a "resident alien" visa or some other kind of work program (such as getting a "green card") and then working their way in order to pay the fee for citizenship.

Sorry if I sound dumb, I'd like to understand and I'd be glad if you could enlighten me on the process.
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Old 05-21-2007, 02:33 PM   #14
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I wonder how many people have any idea of the time, complication, and cost involved in maintaining "legal" status. Last week, we had a friend over to my house who is considering becoming one of our roommates. As we chatted, he told us more about his story. He's original from a poor country in Africa. He applied to the U.S. green card lottery, which is exactly what it sonds like. You PAY for the chance to get a shot at a green card. I believe the fees when he did it were around $300 USD, which may sound cheap enough but consider that in a poor country that could be an entire year's wages. His family and extended familiy all pitched in to cover the cost. Then he was lucky enough to be one of the very few that were selected to interview. Then it gets to an even smaller group that were actually given a green card. Oh, and that application/interview process cost money too, "administrative fees". He gets to the US and starts work but also finds that the path to citizenship is not easy, simple or cheap. So what does he do? He sells that most essential of human things, a chance on his life. He joined the US military, and for the privelege of using his body for target practice, he was granted citizenship at the end of his tour. Identured servitude is still with us.

He's one of the lucky ones actually. But this whole thing took 7 odd years. Now he's trying to get on with his life, finish his degree, get married, start a family. All of the things other people his age have already done.

Don't even get me started on all of the complications involved in maintaining your legal status and understanding all of the laws and legalese that goes with it. You pretty much have to hire an immigration lawyer to make sure you don't accidentally screw things up and lose your shot at ever being allowed back into the country. That costs money too.

You need to always remember when talking about visa issues that there is a system of discrimination being enforced. If you're from a developed country, your application is processed quickly and with much more ease. From a poor country, you may as well forget it. They don't want you, and you're treated like a second-class human.
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Old 05-21-2007, 02:42 PM   #15
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Re: Re: The (illegal) American Dream

Quote:
Originally posted by Ormus


The market is overpriced, much like the irrational exuberance associated with tech stocks seven years ago. It's long overdue for a correction.

:
Agreed.
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