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Old 05-21-2007, 02:46 PM   #16
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Originally posted by AchtungBono


I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "affordable". I'm not familiar with the immigration process in the US, I can only go by my own family's experience. Does it cost money to become an American citizen? Besides, I believe that a person can only become a citizen after living in the US five years, is that true? If so, then they can enter the country on a "resident alien" visa or some other kind of work program (such as getting a "green card") and then working their way in order to pay the fee for citizenship.

Sorry if I sound dumb, I'd like to understand and I'd be glad if you could enlighten me on the process.
Here's a thread that has some good info, it jumps off subject a lot, but there's some good info:

http://forum.interference.com/showth...n&pagenumber=1

There's time, there's establishing residency, application fees, vaccinations and other medical expenses, legal consultation, etc. Most who of the hardline "send them out of the country" crowd are ignorant of these facts and think it's quite easy and cheap to become a citizen, I find that to be quite disturbing.
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Old 05-21-2007, 06:09 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by AchtungBono
I'm not familiar with the immigration process in the US,
Yet you're more than willing to offer up opinions and solutions.


Quote:
Originally posted by AchtungBono

I can only go by my own family's experience.
Which was from Canada to Israel, not from anywhere else to the US. Which makes it a completely different experience.
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Old 05-21-2007, 07:52 PM   #18
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What do people think of the bill being floated on the Senate floor? A few of the key provisions:

"...a temporary guest worker program that sets up three two-year stints for workers provided they return to their home country for a year in between each work period. Temporary workers who bring family members are permitted only one two-year work period.

A minimum of 400,000 work visas will be distributed to immigrants per year with a ceiling of 600,000, something that rankles many unions. To that end, Sen. Jeff Bingaman, D-N.M., will offer an amendment to reduce that number to 200,000, the same item passed overwhelmingly last year.

The centerpiece of the new legislation is a "Z-visa," to be offered to some 12 million illegals if they pay fines, learn English and return to their countries to file paperwork. That would set them on their way toward permanent residency. Many critics of this bill have zeroed in on the Z-visa provision, calling it amnesty.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,274435,00.html
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Old 05-21-2007, 07:59 PM   #19
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


This is false. Listening to O'Reiley does not make one an expert on the U.S. economy, actually it probably has quite the opposite effect. There are many industries that survive on cheap labor, how is it a strain on these industries?
Obviously some companies large and small are profiting from illegal immigrant labor. But do you have evidence that illegal immigrants provide a net benefit economically, either to a state or the nation?
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Old 05-21-2007, 08:09 PM   #20
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Originally posted by Bluer White
But do you have evidence that illegal immigrants provide a net benefit economically, either to a state or the nation?
Good question. The benefits of immigration are sometimes overstated.
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Old 05-21-2007, 08:16 PM   #21
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Obviously some companies large and small are profiting from illegal immigrant labor. But do you have evidence that illegal immigrants provide a net benefit economically, either to a state or the nation?
I know for sure here in Texas that construction costs, commercial and residential increases anywhere from 5-10% when companies are forced to use legal labor.

When I was living in Chicago, the restaurant industry estimated costs would go up close to 15%, and that doesn't include a fluxuation in produce(for they are a viable source in our farms throughout the country), this was just the increase in wages for staff.
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Old 05-21-2007, 09:50 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bluer White
What do people think of the bill being floated on the Senate floor? A few of the key provisions:

"...a temporary guest worker program that sets up three two-year stints for workers provided they return to their home country for a year in between each work period. Temporary workers who bring family members are permitted only one two-year work period.

A minimum of 400,000 work visas will be distributed to immigrants per year with a ceiling of 600,000, something that rankles many unions. To that end, Sen. Jeff Bingaman, D-N.M., will offer an amendment to reduce that number to 200,000, the same item passed overwhelmingly last year.

The centerpiece of the new legislation is a "Z-visa," to be offered to some 12 million illegals if they pay fines, learn English and return to their countries to file paperwork. That would set them on their way toward permanent residency. Many critics of this bill have zeroed in on the Z-visa provision, calling it amnesty.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,274435,00.html
Mostly, I don't think it's likely to pass. But I think Reid is right to warn against the possibility of creating a 'permanent underclass' (through the temporary visas), and as for the $5000 pricetag that permanent residency would come with under the bill, that's far too high to be a realistic option for many.

At least it's a starting point for addressing the issue though.
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Old 05-22-2007, 02:05 AM   #23
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Originally posted by sulawesigirl4


You need to always remember when talking about visa issues that there is a system of discrimination being enforced. If you're from a developed country, your application is processed quickly and with much more ease. From a poor country, you may as well forget it. They don't want you, and you're treated like a second-class human.
Well said, Sula. I'm more familiar with UK immigration than US, but this definitely applies here as well.
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Old 05-22-2007, 08:47 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by AchtungBono
I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "affordable". I'm not familiar with the immigration process in the US, I can only go by my own family's experience. Does it cost money to become an American citizen? Besides, I believe that a person can only become a citizen after living in the US five years, is that true? If so, then they can enter the country on a "resident alien" visa or some other kind of work program (such as getting a "green card") and then working their way in order to pay the fee for citizenship.

Sorry if I sound dumb, I'd like to understand and I'd be glad if you could enlighten me on the process.
Israel is probably the least representative example of the typical immigration experience, merely because Israel accepts anyone that's Jewish.

Compare that to most other countries, particularly industrialized nations, that generally accept only those with highly specialized occupations (i.e., scientists, doctors, IT professions) or asylum cases. That's why in America, in particular, you generally only see two kinds of immigrants: those who work in highly educated scientific fields or the impoverished. Neither class of immigrant is especially popular here, because American corporations generally use the former to avoid paying higher wages to existing U.S. citizens, and the latter is scorned, because they are often a very visible symbol of poverty, low education, and, sometimes, crime.

Which brings me to my next point: the middle class in America and many other Western nations are, more or less, modern-day "serfs," forcefully bound to the country of their birth and can never successfully immigrate to another country. European Union nations, certainly, have some flexibility, as fellow EU nations are permitted to work freely in other EU nations. But if you're an average American citizen interested in opportunities outside your own nation, you're generally screwed. And that, I believe, is where some people get angry.

With all the cheap labor entering America, lowering our wages, we have no choice but to stay in America. As such, it is our national duty to ensure that our job market has sustainable jobs that pay real wages, because if this country turns into Mexico someday, economically, where wealth is heavily concentrated in a corrupt elite (the second wealthiest man in the world is in Mexico) and nearly everyone else lives in poverty with zero opportunities, we'll have to live with it or become illegal immigrants like everyone else.

That aside, a lot of people might be surprised that I support the general idea of "globalism." I just heavily oppose how its currently practiced. All it currently does is allow companies to outsource, while the rest of us still have to deal with customs duties and, like I said above, stay put in our own countries. I will be more favorable towards immigration only if there is a framework to allow workers as much freedom as we currently grant corporations; that is, I want as much freedom and flexibility to emigrate, live and work in other countries as we currently grant our corporations.
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Old 05-22-2007, 10:38 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ormus

That's why in America, in particular, you generally only see two kinds of immigrants: those who work in highly educated scientific fields or the impoverished. Neither class of immigrant is especially popular here, because American corporations generally use the former to avoid paying higher wages to existing U.S. citizens, and the latter is scorned, because they are often a very visible symbol of poverty, low education, and, sometimes, crime.
Regarding the H1-B technical workers, I believe the wage gap has narrowed in recent years as market conditions have changed. There are lots of six figure earning H1-Bs out there. It's not only American corporations who employ them, but also foreign based corporations with US operations.
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Old 05-22-2007, 11:29 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by AchtungBono

Does it cost money to become an American citizen? Besides, I believe that a person can only become a citizen after living in the US five years, is that true? If so, then they can enter the country on a "resident alien" visa or some other kind of work program (such as getting a "green card") and then working their way in order to pay the fee for citizenship.
It costs $400 to become a naturalized US citizen, and with the new fee proposal it will cost $675. In some cases, fee waivers are granted. A resident alien is a green card holder, and must be so for 5 years to be eligible for citizenship. Background checks, civics and English tests, and an interview must be passed. An exception to the 5 year rule is made for people who serve in the US military.
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Old 05-22-2007, 12:30 PM   #27
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Originally posted by ntalwar


It costs $400 to become a naturalized US citizen, and with the new fee proposal it will cost $675. In some cases, fee waivers are granted. A resident alien is a green card holder, and must be so for 5 years to be eligible for citizenship. Background checks, civics and English tests, and an interview must be passed. An exception to the 5 year rule is made for people who serve in the US military.
But that doesn't include all other costs such as medical examinations and vaccinations, does it?
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Old 05-22-2007, 12:39 PM   #28
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Additionally, those figures don't apply to current illegal immigrants hoping to attain longterm permanent residency.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea.../20070522.html

Quote:
Z visa applicants will have to pay a $1,000 fine for heads of households and an additional $500 fine for each dependent (spouses and children). There will also be a processing fee of up to $1,500 and a $500 state impact assistance fee. The $1,000 is not the cost of the visa, but rather a fine for having broken the law. The processing fee will take care of the costs of the visa. The fines and fees are not the only hurdle – applicants must be employed, pass background checks, pay processing fees, and agree to meet accelerated English and civics requirements to get their Z visas.

A Z visa holder wishing to remain in the country under their Z visa indefinitely would still have to renew their visa every four years. Renewing the Z visa means more processing fees (again, up to $1,500 each time). The financial liability for Z visa holders starts to add up very quickly if holders choose to remain in this status instead of pursuing Legal Permanent Resident (LPR) status.
...................................................................................
[For LPR status], there is another $4,000 fine and more processing fees. More background checks are also conducted in order to make sure that the applicant has kept his or her record clean. The applicant will have had to have stayed employed and met the English and civics requirements. They will have to make an application from their home country, go to the back of the line, and demonstrate merit under the new green card points system. Then, and only then, will the undocumented worker obtain a green card.
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Old 05-22-2007, 12:43 PM   #29
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar

But that doesn't include all other costs such as medical examinations and vaccinations, does it?
The $400 is strictly the N-400(naturalization) application fee.
It does not require the medical exam. The I-485 form fee (for permanent residence) is $395 not including additional medical costs.
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Old 05-22-2007, 12:54 PM   #30
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Just chiming in here. I don't know what you'll make of this. Philippine citizens (Filipinos) require a visa to visit the US.
In order to do that, you pay the call center for an interview schedule which is likely about a month to two months depending on season. One also gets to pay 100usd for the application. There is of course no guarantee you can get one unless one is a seasoned traveller, businessman or a prominent person with good record.

Japanese citizens on the other hand are not required to have visitor's visa.

About half a century ago during WWII, the Philippines was the US no. 1 ally in Asia and have helped fought the Japanese at that time.

So here you have Filipinos who have always remained a good friend and ally of the US and yet has to apply, queue and pay to visit the US and then on the other side you have countries like Japan who has some bitter history with the U.S. I have nothing against Japan at all because the Philippines have remained friendly to its neighbors and have always been after that bitter war that reduced the Philippines to a pulp.

I just find this setup odd and to this date is questioned by a lot of Filipinos.
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