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Old 07-11-2004, 04:14 AM   #1
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The hypocrisy in the Hague

The international court in the Hague has decided that terrorism is more important than security and ordered us to dismantle the security fence that we're putting up for our protection.

It's very interesting that they didn't mention anything about the Palestinian terrorism - which is the REASON for the fence in the first place.

Oh well......ho hum.....

P.S.: Of course you realize that the fence will STILL be built, right?
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Old 07-11-2004, 05:06 AM   #2
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But why not build the fence on your own land?
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Old 07-11-2004, 06:22 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally posted by Popmartijn
But why not build the fence on your own land?
It IS our land........
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Old 07-11-2004, 06:36 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by Popmartijn
But why not build the fence on your own land?
It's said that the fence is built also in west bank territories because of varies security reasons, but I agree that the argument you've mentioned can't be ignored. The rout of the fence is a huge problem and causes great damage to Palestinians every-day life. Israel's high court, btw, has ruled against a certain part of it – the explanation was of an un-proportional measurement between the need for security and the amount of damage it causes to Palestinians human rights.

What bothers me the most about The Hague court ruling is that it's indeed one-sided. Only one clause regarding the Palestinian terror is mentioned, and that's within a verdict that almost has a length of the latest Harry Potter book.

To me, the court in The Hague loses a lot of its credibility after this one, and not at all for the mere ruling “against” my country. It seems a bit odd that the judges voted exactly according to their countries standing on the issue (with everyone but the American judge ruling against the fence). It supposes to be a sort of a high court – not the UN.

And another thing, and sorry for my English if this is not put out the way I intend to. The world court in The Hague is not there for bypassing a country's own court ruling and legal system (and that's not just an opinion). Israel's high court has ruled against parts of the fence's rout the other week. The problem is that the ruling came after the court in The Hague has sealed its own verdict (though before it was published). The court in The Hague ruled against the entire fence, Israel's high court ruled against a specific rout of it (a part which had a petition against it) for damaging un-proportionally the Palestinians human rights. But unlike the court in The Hague it doesn't say that Israel doesn't have the right to built it and that the fence is political-the high court in Israel ruled that the fence was built not as a "land grab" but solely for security reasons.

Personally, my instincts and conscience cause me to feel sick when people has their human rights thrown to the dumpster. The rout should be changed when causes this amount of damage. But I don't agree that it's a land grab. When a peace agreement will be signed one day there will be no logistical problem to remove the fence. Fact is - since the building of the fence started, the amount of terror attacks inside Israel has dropped dramatically.

Though not entirely. Just this morning a bomb exploded near a bus station where my buss passes every day. One woman was killed, 20 people injured. Lucky for me, I'm working after-noon shift today and not morning.
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Old 07-11-2004, 07:21 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by AchtungBono


It IS our land........
But...it quite blatantly isn't. If you want to argue Israel should have the right to build its wall on Palestinian land then that's one thing, but to pretend that isn't what happening is simply wrong.

Look at this map from the BBC website, it shows both the areas of the wall which have already been built and the route that the rest of the wall is expected to follow.

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Old 07-11-2004, 07:36 AM   #6
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The simple fact is that the land was captured by the Israelis in the 1967 6 day war waged against her and they have a fair say over what is done there in order to prevent attacks inside Israel. It may infringe the rights of some Palestinians but it is worth it because ultimately it saves Israeli lives, it saves Palestinian lives and in the end will be the foundation for a legitimate peace deal when Arafat shuffles off his mortal coil. I personally doubt that the fence marks the future border of a Palestinian state because it is simply an intermediate term affair designed to prevent terrorism and protect the infrastructure that supports the remaining Settlements. Changes can and should be made wherever the fence has a serious effect on Palestinian lives but I don't think this ruling is very productive on this front as it is simply a political ploy by the Palestinians to use an organization sympathethic to their cause (The UN) to condemn Israel for defending herself against the vicious terrorism that the PA is so utterly hopeless against. Without terrorism the prospects for peace are strong, with a unilateral withdrawl and dismantling of most W-Bank settlements the prospect for peace increaces too.

By doing the hard work on her own Israel is setting the scene for the next phase of peace negotiations that will take place when Arafat is dead and you have some genuine leadership in the PA. The International community should support Israel for the construction of the fence, a non-agressive way to block terrorist strikes rather than condemn her and bring the real criminal Arafat to trial for his ongoing direct support of terrorism and mudering of innocent Israeli civilians all over the world.
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Old 07-11-2004, 02:31 PM   #7
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I've always found it incredible, the lack of support Israel gets from Europeans, especially after what happened in World War II and the wars since then waged to wipe Israel off the map.
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Old 07-11-2004, 03:32 PM   #8
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It is kind of too bad how political this whole process has become. Of course, no one really expects Israel to listen to this court, and this kind of "politics" in this "court" is precisely why the U.S. will never submit to any international war tribunal. And, really, I understand why, because I'm not particularly convinced that any of these international courts are concerned with law; just politics.

I dunno...I wish that the "Holy Land" never existed. We're killing each other over dirt.

Melon
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Old 07-11-2004, 04:39 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by STING2
I've always found it incredible, the lack of support Israel gets from Europeans, especially after what happened in World War II and the wars since then waged to wipe Israel off the map.
Well, the Europeans repeatedly want and try to help. But one word of criticism to the Israeli government and we immediately get labelled anti-semitist by them. So why bother anymore...
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Old 07-11-2004, 07:12 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon
We're killing each other over dirt.

Melon
No kidding. Do people realize how incredibly ridiculous that sounds?

Personally, I've never really taken a side in the Israel/Palestine conflict. Both sides have done some crappy things.

Angela
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Old 07-11-2004, 07:43 PM   #11
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It's unfortunate. It really is sad when there are this many lives lost.
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Old 07-12-2004, 11:27 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon
We're killing each other over dirt.
You can characterize nearly every war this way.

There is very little religion directly involved in the conflict. At this point, it has become a battle of cultural histories.
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Old 07-12-2004, 01:22 PM   #13
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AchtungBono:
Just because Israel has won the war it dosn't turn into israeli land.
Germany isn't the US neither is Iraq also both Countries were in war with the US and lost that war.

But if i would agree for a moment that Palestine is "your land" than all palestinensians are Israelis and therefore have the right to vote?

Sting2:
Imho the EU supports Israel AND the palestinensians. Not allways verry well and not allways the way i like it but i think their mid-east politics is less less biased than the US mid-east politics.
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Old 07-13-2004, 01:05 AM   #14
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How any sane person can oppose a nonviolent way of fighting terrorism is a real worry to me.

Quote:
The International Court of Justice is much like a Mississippi court in the 1930s. The all-white Mississippi court, which excluded blacks from serving on it, could do justice in disputes between whites, but it was incapable of doing justice in cases between a white and a black. It would always favor white litigants. So, too, the International Court. It is perfectly capable of resolving disputes between Sweden and Norway, but it is incapable of doing justice where Israel is involved, because Israel is the excluded black when it comes to that court – indeed when it comes to most United Nations organs.
- Alan Dershowitz
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satelli...=1006953079865
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Old 07-13-2004, 02:56 AM   #15
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A_Wanderer:
So you're still convinced that a court should give his ok if you build a fence 2 metres on your neigbours ground?
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