The Hot Issue Again (well for me anyways)

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BonoVoxSupastar said:


Yes, I watched a few and they are ranting idiots, just like the guy on the phone.

Show me facts, not opinions. Anyone can make a video on youtube. I just saw one that "proved" the whitehouse is run by aliens, should I believe it?

Link please?
 
Justin24 said:

I expected that was your source.:|


Justin24 said:

The minutemen are doing nothing wrong. If they have a permit to carry arms then they are not commiting a crime.
It's not just a matter of carrying a gun. Playing law enforcement is against the law.
Justin24 said:

You say you support them, what about the ones, who commitied a crime, like murder, child abuse, rape etc... ( I know it's not all of them) Then they have the odacisty to come here and dictate our lives change our culture and accomidate them?

I've clarified to you in every single thread, that's it's not a point of me supporting them. Stop putting words in my mouth.

And your logic of supporting murderers is ridiculous, do you support murders who are citizens?

And who the hell is dictating anything in your life? No one's dictating a thing in mine.

Well once you start putting words in my mouth it's a sign for me to get out of here. I'm gone.
 
BonoVoxSupastar said:


I expected that was your source.:|



It's not just a matter of carrying a gun. Playing law enforcement is against the law.


I've clarified to you in every single thread, that's it's not a point of me supporting them. Stop putting words in my mouth.

And your logic of supporting murderers is ridiculous, do you support murders who are citizens?

And who the hell is dictating anything in your life? No one's dictating a thing in mine.

Well once you start putting words in my mouth it's a sign for me to get out of here. I'm gone.

So is all sources supposed to come from CNN? Or La Raza (fuck them)

They are observing and reporting to the proper authorities.

I don't support murder period.

I did not put words in your mouth.
 
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Well I brought sources to the table with facts, but apparently it's not supported here.
 
It's always a thing how you present those facts and how you use figures.
And you can easily make figures supporting your point, and you can also, by deciding which figures you use, manipulate the picture of your outcome.

And some privately shot videos uploaded to youtube are the lost source I would use for a proper discussion of any topic.


Alas, it's not in English, otherwise I could show you how even German media (public TV stations) are providing facts and use "experts" to show how evil computer games are, and how they make killers.
 
I'm not getting caught back in this, I swear, but...:

Justin24 said:
Well I brought sources to the table with facts, but apparently it's not supported here.

What an utterly ridiculous statement. Where are the facts in Abraham Lincoln's quote (and using a quote from a hundred and fifty years ago as supporting evidence is quite something...) or the quote directly below it? Sounds like opinion to me. And the fact that the site is anti-immigration does tend to color the "facts" they're going to choose to present. You're not going to get a complete picture.

It's really not that complicated. If you're only presenting or looking at one side of the picture, then you don't have enough "facts" to properly evaluate the situation. And that's a fact.
 
Listen not only are we having a problem with this look at what happened to France and there problem with illegal immigration. I am sick of this shit. I am tired of hearing people say this was Mexicos land before and "La RAZA" and all that bullshit. I have a map of North America, Central and south America that shows Indian land before there was Mexico.

Why should we give them an easy way in. By doing this it gives them the impression that by gathering numbers and crying about it that they get it by doing that.
 
Diemen said:
I'm not getting caught back in this, I swear, but...:



What an utterly ridiculous statement. Where are the facts in Abraham Lincoln's quote (and using a quote from a hundred and fifty years ago as supporting evidence is quite something...) or the quote directly below it? Sounds like opinion to me. And the fact that the site is anti-immigration does tend to color the "facts" they're going to choose to present. You're not going to get a complete picture.

It's really not that complicated. If you're only presenting or looking at one side of the picture, then you don't have enough "facts" to properly evaluate the situation. And that's a fact.

Did you read the numbers? If our country ran into dispair and Mexico became #1 do you think they would do the same shit we are doing?
 
That was failed integration of citizens living there in second or third generation, being French citizens. Their parents or grandparents are people from France's former colonies, and now they are frustrated because they have no future prospectives.
They aren't illegal, and they are French.
But no one gives them a chance, because they get sorted out when their applications come up at the office desks of the firms.

That is such a totally different case, you can't compare it at all.

And the reasons for the riots are having nothing to do with what you are talking here.
 
Justin24 said:


really how? Are you saying it can't happen to a latin country?


It's economically so far fetched to say that Mexico will overturn the USA in our living time.
 
You keep talking about these people coming over and "forcing" their culture on the rest of us. To me this point is completely without merit. What of the legal immigrants? They don't bring their culture with them? It's a completely baseless point and you really need to stop using it.

This is starting to turn into outlandish fear mongering.
 
I bet the Sioux and Cherokees and Iroquois wish they'd had Minutemen patrolling back in the day, they'd have shot our ancestors' white asses right back to Europe.

Personally I just can't get all worked up about this. Maybe my country's going to hell in a bucket, but I think it's a cop-out to blame that on some poor illegal immigrant who's trying to live a better life. Being poor doesn't mean they're bad. And I make the distinction because being poor is likely what limits their access to legal immigration into the country.

But maybe it's me, I'm a Left-thinking guy. I like poor people. We know what the Right thinks of the poor...look how well the Bush administration handled the Katrina situation.

And what about those 2 buckaroo border patrol guys down in Texas, that shot that guy in the back? And then lied about it...but now we've got bleeding-heart protests for them. Hell, even John Walsh threw them a pity-party on America's Most Wanted...them and the other guy that was popping away at the rear end of a car and shot somebody - funny how these big brave cowboys are always under attack from the mean ol' Mexicans, yet the Mexicans are shot in the back? Hmm...
 
Diemen said:
When YouTube is your primary source of "facts" for your stance, you've got a serious problem.

Do you consider The Center For Immigration Studies information baseless?
 
If I'm not mistaken we've already had this exact same discussion with most of the same players, and after four pages I can't see that anything productive will come of it this time around. Does anyone actually have any real facts to offer and discuss in a rational manner? If not, don't expect this thread to stay open much longer. :|
 
CTU2fan said:
I bet the Sioux and Cherokees and Iroquois wish they'd had Minutemen patrolling back in the day, they'd have shot our ancestors' white asses right back to Europe.


Indeed.
 
Justin24 said:
Fuck dude I am hispanic. LOL Mom is guatemalan and my dads mom was from guatemala.


What is this about, really?

Is it a Mexican-Guatamelan rivalry?
 
Justin, you've already mentioned your Latino origins & that your mum is from Guatemala etc...I presume then at some point, your family emmigrated to the US as you are in SF now.

I'm going to assume they did so legally but given your strong views on the whole business, would you have stopped them or allowed the minutemen-type folks to shoot them had they not been able to enter US legally?
 
My dad was born in the US. He married my mom and became a citizen.

Some Guatemalans (in Guatemala) do have a grudge after Mexico took the Yucatan from them and the British gave Belize their independence. Some in Guatemala also get annoyed when they are asked if they are mexican or speak mexican. I am also mad when I hear Mexico say they had CA, Utah, NM, AZ, Colorado and Nevada first. When there were hundreds of Indian Nations here before that were not part of any Aztec society, any Olmec or Toltec society. Sure the Spanish invaded and took land, but before the Spanish were defeated This land did not belong to Mexico.

And I just don't blame mexico for illegal immigration. We have Illegal aliens coming from all over the world.

There were no minute men back then.

I did bring facts from the Center for Immigration studies but it has not been accepted here.
 
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Justin, I agree with you on most of this topic.It is true that illegal immigrants (no matter what country their from)cost American citizens BILLIONS.The only thing you can do is vote for the person who will do the job required.Why bother arguing with people who only put you down for an opinion.
 
u2fan628 said:
Justin, I agree with you on most of this topic.It is true that illegal immigrants (no matter what country their from)cost American citizens BILLIONS.

That's the biggest lie you've been sold.

How much will your produce, construction costs, landscaping, housekeepng etc raise if immigration was suddenly cut off? Talk about Billions...

If someone could should me true facts about these "billions", I may stay and listen.
 
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