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Old 08-10-2004, 05:52 PM   #1
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Big Grin The GUN thread

I am resisting temptation to go off track in EYKIW by taking this here. I have never seen a good gun/gun control thread since I've been here! How about it!

Here's my position: I am personally anti-gun but pro-choice on gun ownership for others. I am against hunting myself. I do believe we need guns for our own protection in case of burglars. But overall, I believe that it's wrong for the government to take the guns away from citizens, a right our forefathers felt strongly that we should have, because an unarmed country is much more likely to be a country easily controlled.

I also believe, as the old bumper sticker said, that when guns are outlawed, only outlaws willl own guns, because living in America I can tell you, the crooks, the theives, the drug dealers, the killers WILL get their guns, on the streets, out of trunks in back alleys, steal them, etc. Guns CANNOT be controlled completely, so while the criminals have them, we should be able to, too.

While I don't personally like the idea of uzis and AK47's being legal and think they could serve no good purpose except to drug dealers and white surpremicists, banning those is kind of like the beginning of getting them all, the way some of you feel about partial birth abortion being banned, catch my drift?

So now come on and attack me, I know you're going to. I just want to see what you wild and crazy guys and girls will do with this controversial topic!
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Old 08-10-2004, 06:15 PM   #2
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My father and father-in-law were both gun collectors. We don't even have a squirt gun in the house. That pretty much sums up my feelings.
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Old 08-10-2004, 06:20 PM   #3
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Well personally I believe the 2nd ammendment to be outdated or at least very misinterpreted.

I don't believe anyone should own any type of assault weapon, seriously why would any law abiding citizen need one?

I believe hunting rifles and handguns should be legal but have tighter waiting periods, tighter restrictions on obtaining them, and stiffer penalty for pocession. It's ridiculous when you can spend more time with pocession of pot than you can a gun in some instances.

I believe the argument that criminals will obtain guns on the black market a very weak one. Yes some guns will trickle into the black market impossible to stop. But if "assault" rifles were banned the supply would eventually run out. I mean where do you think the guns come from in the black market, they come from the major gun manufacturers, not gang members building them in a basement.
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Old 08-10-2004, 06:20 PM   #4
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I'm okay with guns, actually. I do have a big problem with outlawing them wholesale, although I do agree with bans on certain assault weapons and automatics. But I see nothing wrong with someone having a couple of guns for target shooting or self-defense, provided they are trained in how to use them and keep them safely stored away from small children.

So I'm pro-choice on guns, one could say, but with a lot of caveats.
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Old 08-10-2004, 06:28 PM   #5
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Re: The GUN thread

Quote:
Originally posted by BluberryPoptart
I also believe, as the old bumper sticker said, that when guns are outlawed, only outlaws willl own guns, because living in America I can tell you, the crooks, the theives, the drug dealers, the killers WILL get their guns, on the streets, out of trunks in back alleys, steal them, etc. Guns CANNOT be controlled completely, so while the criminals have them, we should be able to, too.
Yes, I think it's true what the bumber sticker said (who knew those things could tell the truth). By outlawing guns, outlaws will mostly be the only one to have guns. However, I then reach a totally opposite conclusion as you have. I really do think that it is then safer that others don't have them. If they do, it will lead to more deaths. Either the victims try to reach their guns and get shot, or are too slow so they get shot. Or they make a wrong movement and get shot, because the criminal thinks they're going to reach for a gun. As tough and stomach-turning it may be, once you're being held at gun point, it's best not to protest, but give up the cash. It is your highest chance of survival.

Quote:
While I don't personally like the idea of uzis and AK47's being legal and think they could serve no good purpose except to drug dealers and white surpremicists, banning those is kind of like the beginning of getting them all, the way some of you feel about partial birth abortion being banned, catch my drift?
I don't think this limited gun control has to be the beginning of the end (although I wouldn't mind personally). As you say, they really serve no good purpose at all. Not for self defense at least. So why allow them? When you have a gun, you are more inclined to use it (another reason why I am actually in favour of total gun control). And there is never a reason to use an Uzi.

Oh, and I will ignore your drift...

C ya!

Marty
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Old 08-10-2004, 06:34 PM   #6
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Re: Re: The GUN thread

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Originally posted by Popmartijn


Oh, and I will ignore your drift...



Yes let's please have one thread kept on topic.
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Old 08-10-2004, 06:37 PM   #7
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Yes, please.
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Old 08-10-2004, 06:41 PM   #8
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I dont own a gun but I like the idea of having the option to own one. In todays society, we need to be able to protect ourselves if we feel a need. I feel lucky to live in a community where I feel safe but I know that is not case for everyone.
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Old 08-10-2004, 06:53 PM   #9
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This is one issue where I fall to the left of most people in the forum. I don't think civilians should be able to own guns. I think the job of Policemen and other security specialist are made more difficult by the mass number of guns in society. The video of bank robbers who were so well armed they outgunned police and shot up the bank, neighborhood and several Policemen when confronted is a perfect example of the problem.

The 2nd amendment is outdated, because it was designed for a country that had no standing military at the time. Saying that times have changed is an understatement.

Looking at the United Kingdom and Ireland, one can see the dramatic difference in deaths do to gun violence. While 50 people a year die in Gun Violence in the UK and Ireland, over 10,000 people die in the USA every year from Gun Violence. Clearly, the United Kingdom and Ireland have superior policies in regards to guns and gun violence.

Its about time the government brought in heavy restrictions on gun use, but a ban would be best. If people want to hunt or do the target practice thing, they can do it at a facility or area where at the end of the day, the guns are returned to safe storage.

This country should be trying to reduce gun violence to the level it is in Ireland and the United Kingdom. The best way to do that is to gradually disarm the population.

There are very good reasons citizens are not allowed to own Tanks, Artillery, Anti-Tank Missiles etc. With 10,000 US citizens killed every year by guns, there are also good reasons to restrict their use by the population or in fact ban them.
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Old 08-10-2004, 07:06 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by paxetaurora
I do have a big problem with outlawing them wholesale, although I do agree with bans on certain assault weapons and automatics. But I see nothing wrong with someone having a couple of guns for target shooting or self-defense, provided they are trained in how to use them and keep them safely stored away from small children.

So I'm pro-choice on guns, one could say, but with a lot of caveats.
Ditto this post. Guns should be treated the way driving is-if you have your license and are responsible with it and everything, you keep the gun, if not, you get it taken away.

Personally, though, I've never owned a gun, and nobody in my family has ever owned a gun, and I have no desire to own a gun. I'd be way too scared just holding it.

Angela
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Old 08-10-2004, 07:12 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by Moonlit_Angel


Ditto this post. Guns should be treated the way driving is-if you have your license and are responsible with it and everything, you keep the gun, if not, you get it taken away.

Personally, though, I've never owned a gun, and nobody in my family has ever owned a gun, and I have no desire to own a gun. I'd be way too scared just holding it.

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Old 08-10-2004, 07:19 PM   #12
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I agree partially with Sting on this one except I feel the second amendment also protects us from our own military. We as citizens need to insure that we never become a military dictatorship. The current strength of our military and comments by Gen. Franks about martial law imposition further the need for citizen arms.

I'm for tha assault weapons ban obviously. I support waiting periods, tighter controls, and closing gun show loopholes.

That said we have guns in my house for hunting. I enjoy fresh Pheasant occasionally and like deer jerky. The deer here in Ohio are in no need of protection and due to the lack of predators are overruning even the rural areas. I allow limited hunting on my land usually bow hunters cause I like giving the deer a fighting chance. I used to hate hunting when I first moved here from the east coast (hated killing Bambi lol), but over time have tolerated it.
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Old 08-10-2004, 07:28 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by STING2
This is one issue where I fall to the left of most people in the forum. I don't think civilians should be able to own guns. I think the job of Policemen and other security specialist are made more difficult by the mass number of guns in society. The video of bank robbers who were so well armed they outgunned police and shot up the bank, neighborhood and several Policemen when confronted is a perfect example of the problem.

The 2nd amendment is outdated, because it was designed for a country that had no standing military at the time. Saying that times have changed is an understatement.

Looking at the United Kingdom and Ireland, one can see the dramatic difference in deaths do to gun violence. While 50 people a year die in Gun Violence in the UK and Ireland, over 10,000 people die in the USA every year from Gun Violence. Clearly, the United Kingdom and Ireland have superior policies in regards to guns and gun violence.

Its about time the government brought in heavy restrictions on gun use, but a ban would be best. If people want to hunt or do the target practice thing, they can do it at a facility or area where at the end of the day, the guns are returned to safe storage.

This country should be trying to reduce gun violence to the level it is in Ireland and the United Kingdom. The best way to do that is to gradually disarm the population.

There are very good reasons citizens are not allowed to own Tanks, Artillery, Anti-Tank Missiles etc. With 10,000 US citizens killed every year by guns, there are also good reasons to restrict their use by the population or in fact ban them.
Excellent post STING2. It makes more sense to me to ban guns than to try and restrict purchase. So many people slip through the cracks. Some of our worse villians may not have had access to the black market and would not have been denied access to a permit. I'm talking about people that become phycotic and kill their spouses, co workers, neighbors.

Quote:
Originally posted by Popmartijn

I really do think that it is then safer that others don't have them. If they do, it will lead to more deaths. Either the victims try to reach their guns and get shot, or are too slow so they get shot. Or they make a wrong movement and get shot, because the criminal thinks they're going to reach for a gun. As tough and stomach-turning it may be, once you're being held at gun point, it's best not to protest, but give up the cash. It is your highest chance of survival.
Also, think of the accidents that happen with kids and guns. I don't think any parent meant for their kids to find the family gun and use it.

I don't think having your own gun makes you safer and I love the idea of people that would like to use guns to go to a target range or designated hunting area to pursue their hobby. I went to the local police station when I was a teenager and learned to shoot a rifle. I think my boyfriend did at the time, so I joined him. I don't see why that can't be enough for gun enthusiasts.
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Old 08-10-2004, 07:33 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by Scarletwine
I agree partially with Sting on this one except I feel the second amendment also protects us from our own military. We as citizens need to insure that we never become a military dictatorship. The current strength of our military and comments by Gen. Franks about martial law imposition further the need for citizen arms.

I'm for tha assault weapons ban obviously. I support waiting periods, tighter controls, and closing gun show loopholes.

That said we have guns in my house for hunting. I enjoy fresh Pheasant occasionally and like deer jerky. The deer here in Ohio are in no need of protection and due to the lack of predators are overruning even the rural areas. I allow limited hunting on my land usually bow hunters cause I like giving the deer a fighting chance. I used to hate hunting when I first moved here from the east coast (hated killing Bambi lol), but over time have tolerated it.
The second amendment does not protect citizens from the military because it does not allow citizens to arm themselves with weapons and training that would be effective against the military. That was not the case 200 years ago when what the average soldier was armed with was not significantly different than what the average citizen was armed with. Once again, times have changed.
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Old 08-10-2004, 07:33 PM   #15
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Quote:
Looking at the United Kingdom and Ireland, one can see the dramatic difference in deaths do to gun violence. While 50 people a year die in Gun Violence in the UK and Ireland, over 10,000 people die in the USA every year from Gun Violence. Clearly, the United Kingdom and Ireland have superior policies in regards to guns and gun violence.
Consider too the vast difference in population. UK has about 52 million, we are coming up on 300 million. Consider also that some places in Wyoming and the Dakotas have more guns per capita the small population and have never had a murder, while the bigger cities kill hundreds each year. I honestly believe that drug related crime is the reason for this, not the guns themselves, as the western states prove.

Another thing, who needs a gun if you want to kill somebody? Those people in FL were beaten with baseball bats and stabbed.

Quote:
Yes, I think it's true what the bumber sticker said (who knew those things could tell the truth). By outlawing guns, outlaws will mostly be the only one to have guns. However, I then reach a totally opposite conclusion as you have. I really do think that it is then safer that others don't have them. If they do, it will lead to more deaths. Either the victims try to reach their guns and get shot, or are too slow so they get shot. Or they make a wrong movement and get shot, because the criminal thinks they're going to reach for a gun. As tough and stomach-turning it may be, once you're being held at gun point, it's best not to protest, but give up the cash. It is your highest chance of survival
I cannot see the logic in this. I'm sorry, if the fucker coming to rob me has a gun, I want one too. If I was the fucker coming to rob, I'd be much less likely to carry out the crime if I thought the guy in the house or the store had a gun too. But mostly I think guns are needed for protection, such as women traveling alone in cars at night, or staying home alone at night. The option should still be there.
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