The Great Kid Debate

[Hinder]

Recently, I was asked when I would be settling down, marrying, and having children.
My response was, "Not. Going. To Happen." Point blank.

That was when heads exploded, with the oh-so-condescending and predictable, "You're too young to make such a choice; you'll change your mind in a year or two."

Or, my favorite, "That's so selfish!" Damn straight. I'm definitely selfish and hedonistic. Which is why I spend so much time actually helping out the teenagers who seem to think I'm actually a nice person. But ignore that for now.

Keep in mind that I'm 31, and well aware of my choices. Also keep in mind that I'd been perfectly clear about babies since I was aware of the existence of babies: I'd rather cut off my arms and dig out my eyeballs. Never wanted them; can't stand the sound of them, would really rather not be bothered with them.

So, anyway, my question is this: What's up with all those people out there who seem to think that having children is what all female bodied folks want to do with themselves? I mean, really, is it so hard to understand that not everyone wants, or can tolerate, children?

 

[corianderstem]

I'm very lucky that no one I know has that attitude towards me when I state that I don't think I will have children.

 

[Hinder]

Yeah, you are. Those are the kind of people I wish I could meet more of. I suspect a lot of it comes from not looking my age. People assume I am on average, about 23.

 

[MsPurrl]

I was 23 when my son was born, and I thought I was *way* too young!

Tell them MYOB, and that's not required!

 

[MsPurrl]

I was 23 when my son was born, and I thought I was *way* too young!

Tell them MYOB, and that it's not required!

 

[DrTeeth]

Or, my favorite, "That's so selfish!" Damn straight. I'm definitely selfish and hedonistic. Which is why I spend so much time actually helping out the teenagers who seem to think I'm actually a nice person. But ignore that for now.

How is not having kids more hedonistic than having them? How many people have kids not because they want to, but for The Greater Good?

 

[Dreadsox]

Just curious, you seem to have a desire to help nurture older kids. Any chance you have entertained adopting an older child?

I say this because I was adopted, and I am so thankful for the fact that I was given a chance that some are not fortunate enough to get.

Just a thought.

Your personal choice shows great maturity.

 

[martha]

I got married, but didn't settle down or have children. I too have know since I began that kids weren't for me.

As for the selfish part, whatta load of hooey. What's selfish is people who spend $30,000 on having a child to satisfy some entitlement urge rather than adopt an already existing child who needs them.

 

[toscano]

I got married, but didn't settle down or have children. I too have know since I began that kids weren't for me.

As for the selfish part, whatta load of hooey. What's selfish is people who spend $30,000 on having a child to satisfy some entitlement urge rather than adopt an already existing child who needs them.

It's one thing to get defensive about judgemental people criticizing you for not having kids, and almost the same thing for you to criticize those of us who opted to have kids rather than adopt (and probably spend a lot more than $30,000 in the process)

 

[martha]

almost the same thing for you to criticize those of us who opted to have kids rather than adopt (and probably spend a lot more than $30,000 in the process)

I wasn't criticizing anyone who has kids at all. I was comparing "selfishnesses." I think it's a criminal waste of money to get fertility treatments that cost $30,000 to counter what nature gave you. I think the insane entitlement attitude we have in this country that produces people who will go to those lengths simply to have their own child is crazy. If one can't have kids, that's sad if one wanted them, but to spend and spend and spend simply to give birth is the height of "selfishness."

 

[Dreadsox]

I wasn't criticizing anyone who has kids at all. I was comparing "selfishnesses." I think it's a criminal waste of money to get fertility treatments that cost $30,000 to counter what nature gave you. I think the insane entitlement attitude we have in this country that produces people who will go to those lengths simply to have their own child is crazy. If one can't have kids, that's sad if one wanted them, but to spend and spend and spend simply to give birth is the height of "selfishness."

I find it interesting that it has now become "selfish" to make a choice to have a child and to use a "fertility treatment"

but

God forbid anyone call a woman having an abortion selfish(And I am talking aqbout those that use it as birth control.)

That's her right.

This world is fucked up.

 

[Bluer White]

Eh, people spend 30 grand on a new car and don't bat an eye.

 

[toscano]

I wasn't criticizing anyone who has kids at all. I was comparing "selfishnesses." I think it's a criminal waste of money to get fertility treatments that cost $30,000 to counter what nature gave you. I think the insane entitlement attitude we have in this country that produces people who will go to those lengths simply to have their own child is crazy. If one can't have kids, that's sad if one wanted them, but to spend and spend and spend simply to give birth is the height of "selfishness."

I guess having 3 kids (without treatments) I don't see how it's selfish to do what you can to have your own kids

 

[anitram]

I respect people who don't think they would make great parents or who are just not interested in children and never have been, openly stating so rather than giving in to the pressure.

I never had much interest in having a biological child. I'm not closed off to the idea, but I'd rather adopt, and no, I don't need a shiny newborn either. My grandmother's brother was adopted decades ago when it was much more rare, and so nobody in our family has ever thought of it as "different" than having a biological child.

 

[Dreadsox]

I guess having 3 kids (without treatments) I don't see how it's selfish to do what you can to have your own kids

Because, it should not be their choice.

They should play the hand they were delt....

Which only applies in the case of people who want to have a baby.......????

See?

 

[martha]

I find it interesting that it has now become "selfish" to make a choice to have a child and to use a "fertility treatment"

but

God forbid anyone call a woman having an abortion selfish(And I am talking aqbout those that use it as birth control.)

That's her right.

This world is fucked up.

Yes it is fucked up that abortion can be regulated. Do you see me calling for any regulation about 30000 dollar children? No, I'm expressing a private opinion that I would NEVER EVER make a law.

 

[martha]

Because, it should not be their choice.

They should play the hand they were delt....

Which only applies in the case of people who want to have a baby.......????

See?

They can adopt. Hell , they can adopt all the babies you guys want to save.

 

[martha]

I guess having 3 kids (without treatments) I don't see how it's selfish to do what you can to have your own kids

You don't think spending shitloads of money to get pregnant isn't just the tiniest bit self-centered?

 

[toscano]

You don't think spending shitloads of money to get pregnant isn't just the tiniest bit self-centered?

No

Spending shitloads of money on botox, implants, nose jobs, now THAT'S self-centred

If someone wants their own child it's their prerogative, and who are you or I to say if it's self-centred and how they should spend their money ?

 

[martha]

Spending shitloads of money on botox, implants, nose jobs, now THAT'S self-centred

Agreed 100%

If someone wants their own child it's their prerogative, and who are you or I to say if it's self-centred and how they should spend their money ?

I was saying it's self-centered in the context of giving someone shit about not having kids. I personally do think it's incredibly self-centered to spend a ton of money to simply have a baby that looks like you. I would never ever say that to anyone who has done it, and I would never in a bazillion years ever try to legislate it, but I do think it's the height of selfishness in a world with children waiting for good homes and children starving to death.

 

[A_Wanderer]

I wasn't criticizing anyone who has kids at all. I was comparing "selfishnesses." I think it's a criminal waste of money to get fertility treatments that cost $30,000 to counter what nature gave you. I think the insane entitlement attitude we have in this country that produces people who will go to those lengths simply to have their own child is crazy. If one can't have kids, that's sad if one wanted them, but to spend and spend and spend simply to give birth is the height of "selfishness."

Attacking the exact opposite of unplanned pregnancy as a criminal waste of resources may make perfect sense in your mind but those sorts of attitudes shouldn't hold any coersive sway over people making choices about raising children. There is nothing at all unreasonable about wanting to raise a child with your genes, if those people have the means to afford IVF and go through all that strife just to have a child then that only makes them selfish in as much as wanting the best for their offspring.

 

[martha]

Attacking the exact opposite of unplanned pregnancy as a criminal waste of resources may make perfect sense in your mind but those sorts of attitudes shouldn't hold any coersive sway over people making choices about raising children.

No, they shouldn't. You're right. As I've repeatedly stated, this is my private opinion, one I would not use to influence anyone.

 

[corianderstem]

I suspect a lot of it comes from not looking my age. People assume I am on average, about 23.

Wow! I just turned 34 and I get a lot of "Oh, I thought you were in your 20s!" but I don't think anyone thinks I'm that young. Maybe that liquor store clerk the other week who looked long and hard at my ID.

My mom is great - she told me back in my 20s that she knows better than to start asking about grandchildren.

 

[toscano]

Agreed 100%





I was saying it's self-centered in the context of giving someone shit about not having kids. I personally do think it's incredibly self-centered to spend a ton of money to simply have a baby that looks like you. I would never ever say that to anyone who has done it, and I would never in a bazillion years ever try to legislate it, but I do think it's the height of selfishness in a world with children waiting for good homes and children starving to death.

Not being in a position to understand the biological / physiological urge of a woman when sh ewants to have a child, i would never criticize anyone who feel sthat way.

I fought tooth and nail with my wife over having a 3rd, all the logic in the world about our home size, our finances, etc couldn't sway her one iota. I wouldn't change a thing now that we have him. But i guess my point is that i believe when the "urge" kicks in it can be pretty unstoppable, so i wouldn't be so presumptious as to talk anyone out of it as I'm not in their shoes.

 

[martha]

so i wouldn't be so presumptious as to talk anyone out of it as I'm not in their shoes.

Neither would I.

Yet I can still have the belief that it's inherently wrong to spend a small fortune just to get pregnant.

 

[Dreadsox]

They can adopt. Hell , they can adopt all the babies you guys want to save.

Ooohhhh "you guys"....

Ya know, you do not know me or my beliefs....

I will defend their right to their beliefs just as I would defend your right to yours with them.



You guys...lol

 

[anitram]

Do you (any of you) feel that the state should fund IVF? That's an interesting debate that's going on in several countries at the moment.

 

[Dreadsox]

No, I do not.

This is where I feel the argument, the cards you were delt, is applicable.

If people are using their own insurance to get pregnant, fine. Tax $$ should not be used for this.

 

[Dreadsox]

I respect people who don't think they would make great parents or who are just not interested in children and never have been, openly stating so rather than giving in to the pressure.

I never had much interest in having a biological child. I'm not closed off to the idea, but I'd rather adopt, and no, I don't need a shiny newborn either. My grandmother's brother was adopted decades ago when it was much more rare, and so nobody in our family has ever thought of it as "different" than having a biological child.

And that is the way it is in my family. I cannot say that anyone ever even brought it up more than once in my 39 years.

I love my family.

 

[martha]

Do you (any of you) feel that the state should fund IVF?

No, I don't.