The Golden Compass, and killing God

[Liesje]

re. the low turn out....maybe people are just busy? Pullman is one of my favorite writers (Ruby in the Smoke) and this series is one of my favorite trilogies, but seriously, with all the Christmas busy-ness right now...like I have time to watch a movie. Same for my friends and co-workers who are also Pullman fans. If it were the middle of the summer, I would have gone to the opener. Right now there's five movies I want to see and I doubt I'll catch any of them before Christmas. The two people I do know that saw it both loved it (one philosophy prof and one biology prof, I don't think either are Pullman fans or care about his "ideas" either way).

What's humorous to me is that Pullman has been very critical of Lewis because of Lewis' dogmatism, yet Pullman is Lewis' mirror image in that regard

How so?

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

LOL, good question.

I'm probably never going to see this-I've never read/seen "The Da Vinci Code", either, so no worries of wasting money here .

oooooh, horrors! We certainly don't want to indoctrinate the little darlings.

I just want to know how those kids will be able to deal when they encounter atheists outside the comfort of their Catholic schools/homes?

Angela

 

[indra]

I just want to know how those kids will be able to deal when they encounter atheists outside the comfort of their Catholic schools/homes?

Angela

Interestingly the first person I ever met who said "I'm an atheist/agnostic" (it was three decades ago so I forget exactly which he said) was my biology teacher at a Catholic high school. I always got a kick out of that.

I'm sure I met others before then, but none that would say it (or it just never came up). Hey, I was in a rural area -- there were a lot of bars (it was heavily Catholic, so bars were ok) and churches and not much else. Different was not considered good. Bob was from Dayton though -- oooh! the big city.

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

Interestingly the first person I ever met who said "I'm an atheist/agnostic" (it was three decades ago so I forget exactly which he said) was my biology teacher at a Catholic high school. I always got a kick out of that.

Haha! Oh, wow...that's great!

I'm sure I met others before then, but none that would say it (or it just never came up). Hey, I was in a rural area -- there were a lot of bars (it was heavily Catholic, so bars were ok) and churches and not much else. Different was not considered good. Bob was from Dayton though -- oooh! the big city.

I've lived in areas like that! Let's hear it for small-town life in Wyoming, Nebraska, and Iowa (well, the town in Iowa I was born in was pretty open...the second town in Iowa I lived in...bit less so...).

Yeah, most of the time that never comes up, but should such an event happen, will be interesting to see how such sheltered people will handle something different.

Angela

 

[MadelynIris]

I don't know. I'm cool with all kinds of fantasy, regardless of real world context or inspiration.

But for this author to be so anti CS Lewis and Tolkien, just rubbed me the wrong way.

At first I was thinking this guy is just trying to differentiate, capitalize on a gimmick... But something about his attitude creeps me out. You rarely hear someone express such disdain for founding fathers of a genre like that.

Whatever.

 

[Liesje]

At first I was thinking this guy is just trying to differentiate, capitalize on a gimmick... But something about his attitude creeps me out. You rarely hear someone express such disdain for founding fathers of a genre like that.

Yeah, but it's really not his fault the media is obsessing over it. Pullman has been writing for decades, but no one seemed to care until a blockbuster movie was in the works.

 

[No spoken words]

There is a Fantasy author named China Meiville who hates Tolkien and has referred to him as "the wen on the arse of fantasy literature". Have you even heard of Meiville? I've read all but one of his books, and he is developing a following, but, not many have heard of him or care about his thoughts on Tolkien. Now, if they ever make "Perdido Street Station" into a major motion picture, you'll hear all about it.

 

[coemgen]

I don't know. I'm cool with all kinds of fantasy, regardless of real world context or inspiration.

But for this author to be so anti CS Lewis and Tolkien, just rubbed me the wrong way.

At first I was thinking this guy is just trying to differentiate, capitalize on a gimmick... But something about his attitude creeps me out. You rarely hear someone express such disdain for founding fathers of a genre like that.

Whatever.

I agree with you completely on this. How can you dislike C.S. Lewis?

 

[LJT]

Easy...I don't

Mieville is extremely good...almost finished Perdido, then moving onto The Scar...

I think Pullman's and Mieville's issue with Tolkien and Lewis, is the use of archetypes or that they are the origin of so many archetypes and cliches now in the fantasy genre. That said I think most of the archetypes were created long before either of them (ie. The Bible). The fantasy in both is all pretty standard fare.

In a medium that should allow you to do anything at all fantastical, everything is quite conservative.

I love Tolkien but it is more for the stories like his Unfinished Tales and what not. His greatest accomplishment is the world he wholly created, with it's languages, races and customs, he got lost in the detail, while fascinating, LOTR can read a bit like a textbook on the history and customs of Middle Earth.

 

[yolland]

Having worked book retail for almost a decade during college and grad school, I can say with confidence that there are plenty of people who dislike the Narnia Chronicles pretty intensely. LOTR tends to get less strongly mixed reviews, though like anything it has its detractors. In general you'd be surprised how many supposedly 'universally beloved children's classics' in fact have a significant minority of readers who really despised them. Neither series grabbed me as a kid, although I disliked Narnia more; I managed to finish The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe, and didn't hate it or anything, but had no desire to read any more of the series after that. I found the story in general rather thin, and the characters in particular felt more like mere devices in service of an idea than fully realized, memorably compelling personalities. I've never read Pullman, although I remember the first couple books of this series coming out and selling well when I worked retail. My understanding is that his strong dislike for Narnia (not necessarily other Lewis) is more of a philosophical nature, and that he found Tolkien more dissatisfying then dislikeable.

 

[Irvine511]

I disliked Narnia more; I managed to finish The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe, and didn't hate it or anything, but had no desire to read any more of the series after that. I found the story in general rather thin, and the characters in particular felt more like mere devices in service of an idea than fully realized, memorably compelling personalities.

i totally agree. i couldn't stand the Narnia books. am glad i'm not the only one.

 

[coemgen]

I see. I guess I thought he had an overall dislike for Lewis. Hey, if he or others don't like Narnia, that's OK. : )

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

It's strange that 26 million is considered a disappointment. I think weekends before the holidays are slower anyway, and the weather was miserable in much of the country too. It's not one that I'm all that interested in seeing, but that has nothing to do with any religious issues.

 

[Vincent Vega]

I thought miserable weather would be a good reason to go to the movies.

 

[Liesje]

I thought miserable weather would be a good reason to go to the movies.

Not when half the roads are closed from crashes and everything is covered in a layer of wet ice! Our weather was OK this past weekend, but I had to host a dinner party so we couldn't go.

 

[Vincent Vega]

Well, ok, if it's that miserable I can understand.

 

[nathan1977]

It's strange that 26 million is considered a disappointment. I think weekends before the holidays are slower anyway, and the weather was miserable in much of the country too. It's not one that I'm all that interested in seeing, but that has nothing to do with any religious issues.

Actuals are even lower -- $25.7M. By contrast, Narnia did $65M on the same weekend two years ago. Fellowship of the Ring did $47M in 2001, on a weekend much closer to Christmas. So as far as the industry's concerned, it's already a huge underperformer, and if it doesn't have legs, will serve as a big blow to one of the last mini-majors. Estimates are that it will perform more like Eragon, which grossed $23M a year ago, on its way to a $75M gross, which while solid, is unremarkable given that they spent nearly $300M to make it. (LOTR, by contrast, cost $300M for the whole series.)

Granted, it may perform better in Europe, where awareness of the books is higher, but it's still not doing remarkable business there either -- and even then, Narnia and LOTR far outpaced their domestic performance far better than Compass is likely to.

The likelihood is much higher that Bob Shaye will call Peter Jackson and say "let's do 'The Hobbit'" than that he'll okay the next two films in the Compass series.

 

[coemgen]

I thought they were doing "The Hobbit."

 

[nathan1977]

I thought they were doing "The Hobbit."

Bob Shaye made it very public about a year or so ago that Jackson would never do "The Hobbit" as long as Shaye ran New Line. But over the past several months, shifts have started to happen behind the scenes. Rumors are that it's going to be a two-part film, filled out with ancillary material. That's the rumor, anyway...

 

[coemgen]

That's probably what I've heard . . . the rumors. I thought it was a little more certain that Jackson was going to do something because of changes with New Line.

We shall see!