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Old 12-09-2007, 07:30 PM   #31
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re. the low turn out....maybe people are just busy? Pullman is one of my favorite writers (Ruby in the Smoke) and this series is one of my favorite trilogies, but seriously, with all the Christmas busy-ness right now...like I have time to watch a movie. Same for my friends and co-workers who are also Pullman fans. If it were the middle of the summer, I would have gone to the opener. Right now there's five movies I want to see and I doubt I'll catch any of them before Christmas. The two people I do know that saw it both loved it (one philosophy prof and one biology prof, I don't think either are Pullman fans or care about his "ideas" either way).


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What's humorous to me is that Pullman has been very critical of Lewis because of Lewis' dogmatism, yet Pullman is Lewis' mirror image in that regard
How so?
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Old 12-09-2007, 07:33 PM   #32
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LOL, good question.

I'm probably never going to see this-I've never read/seen "The Da Vinci Code", either, so no worries of wasting money here .

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Originally posted by indra
oooooh, horrors! We certainly don't want to indoctrinate the little darlings.
I just want to know how those kids will be able to deal when they encounter atheists outside the comfort of their Catholic schools/homes?

Angela
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Old 12-09-2007, 07:51 PM   #33
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Originally posted by Moonlit_Angel
I just want to know how those kids will be able to deal when they encounter atheists outside the comfort of their Catholic schools/homes?

Angela
Interestingly the first person I ever met who said "I'm an atheist/agnostic" (it was three decades ago so I forget exactly which he said) was my biology teacher at a Catholic high school. I always got a kick out of that.

I'm sure I met others before then, but none that would say it (or it just never came up). Hey, I was in a rural area -- there were a lot of bars (it was heavily Catholic, so bars were ok) and churches and not much else. Different was not considered good. Bob was from Dayton though -- oooh! the big city.
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Old 12-09-2007, 07:56 PM   #34
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Interestingly the first person I ever met who said "I'm an atheist/agnostic" (it was three decades ago so I forget exactly which he said) was my biology teacher at a Catholic high school. I always got a kick out of that.
Haha! Oh, wow...that's great!

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Originally posted by indra
I'm sure I met others before then, but none that would say it (or it just never came up). Hey, I was in a rural area -- there were a lot of bars (it was heavily Catholic, so bars were ok) and churches and not much else. Different was not considered good. Bob was from Dayton though -- oooh! the big city.
I've lived in areas like that! Let's hear it for small-town life in Wyoming, Nebraska, and Iowa (well, the town in Iowa I was born in was pretty open...the second town in Iowa I lived in...bit less so...).

Yeah, most of the time that never comes up, but should such an event happen, will be interesting to see how such sheltered people will handle something different.

Angela
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Old 12-09-2007, 10:04 PM   #35
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I don't know. I'm cool with all kinds of fantasy, regardless of real world context or inspiration.

But for this author to be so anti CS Lewis and Tolkien, just rubbed me the wrong way.

At first I was thinking this guy is just trying to differentiate, capitalize on a gimmick... But something about his attitude creeps me out. You rarely hear someone express such disdain for founding fathers of a genre like that.

Whatever.
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Old 12-09-2007, 10:25 PM   #36
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At first I was thinking this guy is just trying to differentiate, capitalize on a gimmick... But something about his attitude creeps me out. You rarely hear someone express such disdain for founding fathers of a genre like that.

Yeah, but it's really not his fault the media is obsessing over it. Pullman has been writing for decades, but no one seemed to care until a blockbuster movie was in the works.
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Old 12-09-2007, 10:39 PM   #37
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There is a Fantasy author named China Meiville who hates Tolkien and has referred to him as "the wen on the arse of fantasy literature". Have you even heard of Meiville? I've read all but one of his books, and he is developing a following, but, not many have heard of him or care about his thoughts on Tolkien. Now, if they ever make "Perdido Street Station" into a major motion picture, you'll hear all about it.
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Old 12-10-2007, 01:28 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by MadelynIris
I don't know. I'm cool with all kinds of fantasy, regardless of real world context or inspiration.

But for this author to be so anti CS Lewis and Tolkien, just rubbed me the wrong way.

At first I was thinking this guy is just trying to differentiate, capitalize on a gimmick... But something about his attitude creeps me out. You rarely hear someone express such disdain for founding fathers of a genre like that.

Whatever.
I agree with you completely on this. How can you dislike C.S. Lewis?
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Old 12-10-2007, 05:57 AM   #39
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Easy...I don't

Mieville is extremely good...almost finished Perdido, then moving onto The Scar...

I think Pullman's and Mieville's issue with Tolkien and Lewis, is the use of archetypes or that they are the origin of so many archetypes and cliches now in the fantasy genre. That said I think most of the archetypes were created long before either of them (ie. The Bible). The fantasy in both is all pretty standard fare.

In a medium that should allow you to do anything at all fantastical, everything is quite conservative.

I love Tolkien but it is more for the stories like his Unfinished Tales and what not. His greatest accomplishment is the world he wholly created, with it's languages, races and customs, he got lost in the detail, while fascinating, LOTR can read a bit like a textbook on the history and customs of Middle Earth.
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Old 12-10-2007, 09:07 AM   #40
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Having worked book retail for almost a decade during college and grad school, I can say with confidence that there are plenty of people who dislike the Narnia Chronicles pretty intensely. LOTR tends to get less strongly mixed reviews, though like anything it has its detractors. In general you'd be surprised how many supposedly 'universally beloved children's classics' in fact have a significant minority of readers who really despised them. Neither series grabbed me as a kid, although I disliked Narnia more; I managed to finish The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe, and didn't hate it or anything, but had no desire to read any more of the series after that. I found the story in general rather thin, and the characters in particular felt more like mere devices in service of an idea than fully realized, memorably compelling personalities. I've never read Pullman, although I remember the first couple books of this series coming out and selling well when I worked retail. My understanding is that his strong dislike for Narnia (not necessarily other Lewis) is more of a philosophical nature, and that he found Tolkien more dissatisfying then dislikeable.
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Old 12-10-2007, 10:39 AM   #41
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I disliked Narnia more; I managed to finish The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe, and didn't hate it or anything, but had no desire to read any more of the series after that. I found the story in general rather thin, and the characters in particular felt more like mere devices in service of an idea than fully realized, memorably compelling personalities.


i totally agree. i couldn't stand the Narnia books. am glad i'm not the only one.
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Old 12-10-2007, 11:11 AM   #42
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I see. I guess I thought he had an overall dislike for Lewis. Hey, if he or others don't like Narnia, that's OK. : )
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Old 12-10-2007, 11:15 AM   #43
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It's strange that 26 million is considered a disappointment. I think weekends before the holidays are slower anyway, and the weather was miserable in much of the country too. It's not one that I'm all that interested in seeing, but that has nothing to do with any religious issues.
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Old 12-10-2007, 05:41 PM   #44
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I thought miserable weather would be a good reason to go to the movies.
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Old 12-10-2007, 05:45 PM   #45
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I thought miserable weather would be a good reason to go to the movies.
Not when half the roads are closed from crashes and everything is covered in a layer of wet ice! Our weather was OK this past weekend, but I had to host a dinner party so we couldn't go.
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