The Generation who watched our African brothers and sisters get put on the trains?

[BostonAnne]

http://www.christianitytoday.com/music/interviews/bono-1202.html

In response to those opening statements, ChristianityToday.com asked Bono to elaborate on the spiritual ramifications relating to the AIDS epidemic in Africa, specifically seeking his views on how the church should step in. "There's a lot at stake here, obviously lives of people," he responded. "I think Judeo Christian culture is at stake. If the church doesn't respond to this, the church will be made irrelevant. It would [be] like the way you heard stories of people watching the Jews get put on the trains during the Holocaust. We will be that generation who watched our African brothers and sisters get put on the trains."

I am interested in your opinions to this article and Bono's reference to "being the generation who watched our African brothers and sisters get put on the trains." Is he going overboard? The few times I actually talk to people about helping Africa, their response is that America has enough of it's own problems (poverty,etc.) and we should solve them first before helping Africa.

I believe that Bono is doing the right thing and get frustrated that it is taking so long to get results from our government. The demand for these results come from the people and it seems that the people aren't saying much yet. Why not?

 

[deep]

Anne,

One of the many myths in American history is that Americans did not know what Hitler and Germany were doing in the 1930s. For the most part Americans either did not care what happened to the Jews in Europe, or worse even, many condoned it. Jewish leaders went to FDR and pleaded for intervention, he could not afford to be seen as catering to the Jews.

The isolationists had won the day, the interventionists were seen as unAmerican. It was said that America had too many of her own problems.
Compared to the 30s economy (The depression) we are indeed in a much better position to come to the aid of our brother and sisters in Africa today.

Bono is right.

 

[BostonAnne]

I never realized how long it took America to assist the Jews in Europe. How sad.

 

[Sherry Darling]

Right. It took us being attacked on our own "turf" to get involved! *sigh* My how things have changed. I think Bono's exactly right (because he's right, not because he's Bono.)

Deep, great to see you on this thread. I hope you've sent your letter? Check out the link in my sig and the African Well Fund (link on the site in my sig) to get involved!



SD

 

[Crzy4Bono]

It was not only not assisting - America actually turned away boatloads of Jewish refugees from Europe who had managed to escape, and sent them back. Our response in the war was not to the holocaust, it was to Japan attacking us on our own soil, and finally responding to fascist governments invading democratic countries. (self-interest)

We do have a lot of problems here - but problems elsewhere in the world certainly do affect America. If you doubt that, just think back to Sept 11, 2001. When Bono was in Nashville, he said something along the lines of terrorists recruiting by whispering wicked ideas into the ears of the poorest and most wretched. And it's true -- radical fundamentalism tends to get its start in the soup of oppression and poverty. As a nation, we already turned our backs on Africa once, during the Rwanda tragedy. For our national interest, we cannot afford to continue to do that. And as a people, we shouldn't.

 

[Scarletwine]

Right. It took us being attacked on our own "turf" to get involved! *sigh* My how things have changed. I think Bono's exactly right (because he's right, not because he's Bono.)

SD

Right, things haven't changed at all in Washington. The 3 billion we should contribute to the UN aids fund is a drop in the bucket of our Military budget (at least 369B) and should be taken out of there. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

I think the distinction Bono is trying to make about Africa, is that it is am emergency with 6500 dying daily and another 9500 being infected. They need help now, not in a few years.

 

[oktobergirl]

Re: The Generation who watched our African brothers and sisters get put on the trains?


I am interested in your opinions to this article and Bono's reference to "being the generation who watched our African brothers and sisters get put on the trains." Is he going overboard? The few times I actually talk to people about helping Africa, their response is that America has enough of it's own problems (poverty,etc.) and we should solve them first before helping Africa.

Bono did say that in nashville, but I'm trying to remember who it was that actually said it. Bono asked permission of him to say that same phrase at his speech. I can't remember who it was but if someone does , please post it.

 

[oktobergirl]

xx

xx

 

[oktobergirl]

I found it , here it is.......

Bono revealed that he sought and received permission from Rep. Tom Lantos, (D-Calif.), a Holocaust survivor, to liken the plight of Africans dying of AIDS as the world turns a blind eye, to Jews being forced into death camp-bound trains, while the world did nothing.

and this...

"I met a Senator Lantos who was a prisoner at Auschwitz, and he said that if they were being put on the trains, he could see people who were watching them being put on the trains. He said, 'what are these people thinking?'. I kind of feel like we're the generation that's watching these people being put on the trains, and that's how Senator Lantos felt. "



"Are we not watching them being put on trains again?" Bono said. "I want to offer my services to at least just lay on the tracks."

 

[Sherry Darling]

Scarletwine,

I sure hope you've let your leaders know how you feel! Feel free to use to sample letter on my site in my sig.

Amen!

SD

 

[Scarletwine]

I've sent letters, e-mails, ect. to the Pres and my senators/reps.
I was supprised to get a reply from DeWine, of course he voted against the 5 B package as did our new Senate majority leader.

 

[diamond]

good article anne.
bono has a way of reminding all of us to "do the right thing"..

he has enough clout to do this as his motives are genuine.
i think he feels even if we give w/all of our problems, things will still work themselves out.

love is endless and rejuninates itself automatically, its not like charity has a limit...

db9

 

[Sherry Darling]

Scarletwine, I'll add you right away! Frist voted against it??? Wow.

SD

 

[BostonAnne]

Thank you all for more education. I hope that people that read this thread will call/write the government if they haven't already.


Anne

 

[Dreadsox]

Anne,

One of the many myths in American history is that Americans did not know what Hitler and Germany were doing in the 1930s. For the most part Americans either did not care what happened to the Jews in Europe, or worse even, many condoned it. Jewish leaders went to FDR and pleaded for intervention, he could not afford to be seen as catering to the Jews.

The isolationists had won the day, the interventionists were seen as unAmerican. It was said that America had too many of her own problems.
Compared to the 30s economy (The depression) we are indeed in a much better position to come to the aid of our brother and sisters in Africa today.

Bono is right.

This is an excellent post. Nice thread Anne. FDR wanted to get involved more in stopping Hitler, but he did not have the political grounds to stand on at the time. If Pearl Harbor had not happened, one might begin to wonder when the US would have become involved in the war in more than a covert manner.

As for the isolationists, President Kennedy's father, who was the Ambassador to Great Britain for FDR was outspoken in his support of the Isolationist policy. I also, and I may be overtating here, believe he had made statements in support of Hitler. It was politically damaging for him later on, and ruined his own political aspirations.

I am bringing my class to the Kennedy Museum in less than a month, and I will look for some information in the area.

I applaud all of you for your activism in this area. I think the World must work together to do something. I (as always) would love to look at some of the waste (ie Tobacco settlement $$) and channel it somewhere else rather than raise taxes.

Peace

 

[U2Bama]

I too am curious about Frist voting against an African AIDS package.

I am awayre that he initially proposed $200 million in his Senate bill, then upped it to $500 million, then reduced the Senate pledge back to $200 million ONLY on the assurance from the Bush administration that the White House would appropriate the remaining $300 million, but I have not heard of Frist voting "against" any of these measures.

~U2Alabama

 

[Scarletwine]

He was against the expansion to 500 million, in subcomittee not an actual vote.

Sorry that was misleading.

 

[U2Bama]

As I understand it, he was the one who increased the proposal to $500 million, but was then pressured to reduce it to $200 million, and agreed only on an assurance from the Administration that the White House would appropriate the remaining $300 million difference. On that information and what you have said, I do not see anything about him voting against a $5 billion package.

~U2Alabama

 

[Scarletwine]

U2Bama - 500M not 5B - my typo. Has the White House appropriated the other 300?

 

[U2Bama]

To my knowledge, the White House has not finalized the allocation, though I think they should. This is part of why President Bush should keep his trip to Africa close on his calendar, as I think many people were expecting him to finalize the appropriation upon the conclusion of his visit.

~U2Alabama

P.S. Does anyone know why my signature photo is cut off?

 

[Scarletwine]

I don't know. All sig's seem to be cut off.

 

[FizzingWhizzbees]

P.S. Does anyone know why my signature photo is cut off?

No, but it's happening to my quote too, so there's no need to feel victimised or anything

 

[nbcrusader]

P.S. Does anyone know why my signature photo is cut off?

Elvis is working on the signature function. Currently, everyone now has a fixed size for signatures. This may change as he polishes the system.

 

[Sherry Darling]

To my knowledge, the White House has not finalized the allocation, though I think they should. This is part of why President Bush should keep his trip to Africa close on his calendar, as I think many people were expecting him to finalize the appropriation upon the conclusion of his visit.

~U2Alabama

P.S. Does anyone know why my signature photo is cut off?

I hope you've told your leaders that! I couldn't agree more!

(and hope you get your sig back )



Cheryl

 

[U2Bama]

Thank you, Sherry Darling. I must confess that I first learned of the "Drop the Debt" and Jubilee campaigns just over 3 years ago when my local U.S. Congressman, Spencer Bachus (R-Alabama), met with Bono to discuss Africa and the crisis that was growing in the continent.

Bachus and former U.S. Congressman John Kasich (R-Ohio) were among Bono's first Capitol Hill "insiders' to give him the time of day but more importantly to get Bono in front of other, more conservative Republican leaders and bring publicity and governmental attention to the issue. From the beginning Bachus has supported FULL forgiveness of African debt as the "right thing to do" and continues to push his colleagues in both parties towards greater solutions from the U.S. Not your typical Republican platform, I know, but that is all the more evidence that Bachus has taken these steps on faith and conviction, and I respect him for that. He has also taken a stand on a disgraceful African tragedy, that of slavery in Sudan, but with less international success (international companies continue to profit from it).

My Mom's late twin sister and her husband were missionaries in Botswana and thus my cousins gre up there. Several of my friends in college spent a month in Africa on various Service Learning trips. Hearing them tell of their experiences my entire life has given me the inescapable knowledge of the crisis in Africa but also of the willingness of the people there to accept our help. If international efforts can truly reach the individuals, then there is hope for the entire continent and more breeding grounds for terrorism can be avoided and we can truly feel good about helping our neighbors at the same time. If we let it go too far, we will find ourselves in a desperate competition with the theocratic tyrants who advance their causes by wreaking havoc on those who don't believe as they do and who prey on the weak.

Thanks for bringing continued attention to the situation.

~U2Alabama

 

[U2Bama]

On an unrelated note regarding something that has reared it's head in this thread and should probably be moved off to another thread, please remember that in the 1930s, the U.S. was home to a sizable portion of immigrants and 2nd generation from Europe, particularly Italians and Germans, all of whom were vital parts of this country's work force, military, and religious and political structure, AND the U.S. was on a very slippery economic slope with the Great Depression. Jewish populations were not as vocal at that time as fewer of them had emmigrated to the U.S. from Russia, Germany and the rest of Eastern Europe (as they would after WW2).

I do NOT think this excuses the U.S.'s tardiness in doing something about Hitler or Daddy Warbucks Musolini, but an economic depression could have been a dangerous time to declare war on the homeland of some of those economically depressed groups. I think the U.S. should have disregarded that and acted sooner as many more European lives would have been saved and Hitler would have been stopped much sooner.

If we are going to mention the U.S.'s ignorance in 1930s Germany, we must also address the U.S.'s ignorance towards Stalins massacre of his own citizens in 1940s Russia, even if he was doing it for good ol' Soviet communism and the proletariat.

~U2Alabama

 

[DebbieSG]

as far as Bono going overboard with that statement, in one sense the scale is the same, the factor of racism is there, the economic deprivation is similar...but in another sense the situations have different "aggressors"...if it were the Nazis, i wouldn't recommend Bono laying on any train tracks. People who protested jewish discrimination and deportations were arrested themselves...lots of different factors i don't want to expound on, but if you think about it you might start realizing just what it's going to take to prevent this plague from advancing...plenty of germans said "What could we do to help?" as their reason for inaction.

and why aren't people responding? one newspaper article cited "compassion fatigue" We keep hearing of these huge crises one after the other in Africa, and this seems to be just another in the line. Americans have that independent streak that says you have to be able to handle your own problems. We want to protect our economic interests, our own pockets and corporate perogative, and some Christians, who do believe the destitute must be cared for, have the view that AIDs is punishment for lax morals, or they just don't want to get involved in an issue that deals with s-e-x. They're not going to be spokesmen for using condoms. and other such reasons, the least of which it's far away and we don't witness the day to day devastation. Nor do we fathom the way it will wreak havoc on anything Africa has built to this point. for instance, did you know that one third of South Africa's government workers, those who take care of transportation, infrastructure, etc, have AIDS? and when you're talking about millions of orphans, the help is going to have to be on a much grander scale than the usual campaign to sponsor a poor child; we haven't quite got our minds around it yet.

 

[Sherry Darling]

U2Bama--Wow! Great to hear you're so involved and knowledgable! I'll be happy to add you to the Angels if you like.

Debbie-- yes, it can feel overwhelming. And I also agree that a lot of Americans who just don't understand the reality of living with literally NO infrastructure imagine that if they just work hard enough, they'll be okay. No infrastructure= no school or hospitals or businesses or roads= NO JOBS to be be had!

Excellent points.

BTW, all new Angels are now added and the new forum is up and working! Come on over and say hi and see your name in lights! Link's in my sig!

SD

 

[BostonAnne]

What can be done to combat "compassion fatigue"? As America is in such an unsecure place - I feel that combating "compassion fatigue" is going to get harder and harder. People need to grasp their minds around the whole situation now - before our economy worsens and before we end up going to war. As you can tell, I am not feeling very confident in America right now.

 

[Dreadsox]

What can be done to combat "compassion fatigue"? As America is in such an unsecure place - I feel that combating "compassion fatigue" is going to get harder and harder. People need to grasp their minds around the whole situation now - before our economy worsens and before we end up going to war. As you can tell, I am not feeling very confident in America right now.

Anne, you hit it on the head. I too am extremely worried about the economic times facing our country are going to be very trying. Many of the states are in dire trouble due to overspending and not spending money responsibly. State after State is heading into dire dire fiscal times.

One example of "compassion fatigue" is that we had a former student from my school die on 9/11. We decided to build a Peace Garden at my school in her memory. Parents, students and teachers donated time and money to clear the land, shovel the soil, build the flower boxes. It was the first 'community" project that I have seen in my 8 years of teaching. The Peace Garden project died with a union grievance from custodians in another building. The dead girls father was working on the garden with us. How utterly awful? Parents and students cannot work to beautify their school due to a grievance.

Enough of my rambling. My fear is that the plight of Africa is not going to make it into the mainstream news. The War (should it happen) and the economic downturns of our country are going to take the front burner. We are also entering into the beginnings of the next presidential elections. It does not look good for publicity on the topic and the nightly news is only on for so long. My hope is that religious organizations will start to do more to help make their congregations aware of the situation. However, even their in our own neck of the woods were are consumed by the scandals.

This is a bad time for making the case for "compassion".

Peace