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Old 01-16-2004, 05:41 PM   #91
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Not only that, but people in Cuba are dying of AIDS. U2LipstickBoy didn't post the entire article. It's available here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/...03/2770631.stm
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Old 01-16-2004, 05:47 PM   #92
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Re: Cuba has recovered, that is a cure

Quote:
Originally posted by U2LipstickBoy
Cuba has recovered, they have the cure for AIDS, they've got the solution and it worked. No single person in Cuba that had AIDS has recovered, they all die like all other people die regardless if they have AIDS or not. Cuba viewed the people with AIDS as a sunk cost and Cuba did not spend one dollar on the people that already had AIDS. Cuba instead focused on the majority of people that do NOT have AIDS, and that was the recovery for Cuba's high infection rate was to keep the healthy people away from the AIDS infected people, and EUREKA - it worked.

While Cuba's rates of AIDS drastically went down over the past 20 years, Africa's rates have drastically gone up. Cuba now has one of the lowest rates in the world, and Africa's AIDS problem will continue to get worse until they adopt Cuba's cure.
Cuba's policy of dealing with AIDS through Isolation isnt cure. Its manslaughter. Pure and simple.
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Old 01-16-2004, 06:11 PM   #93
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Quote:
Africa has been getting international funding for over 15 years now, and the more money Africa gets, the more AIDS-infected people Africa is getting. The money has had more than enough time to sink in, it's time to cut the money off. It's time to stop babying the Africans and treating them like little kids, and let them solve their own problem.
Okay my fault it is my irish temper and getting my back up on this when really lipstick boy you are never going to "get it" so why bother my head is saying..

But I will say this , no one is babying Africans here.. that statement from you is an example of how you once again do not understand the crisis. This is not pity or babying this is a case of human rights, what we are trying to do is not take over and solve this for them. they need the tools they need assistance to build themselves up and stand on there feet. They need fair conditions to do that, they need debt relief, fair trade , access to medicines etc etc.. Aids has done much to tearing apart the economy in Africa but other countries rich nations have a role to play in the current state of things. When we hold them to debts , when we won't allow products on our shelves but invade there's tell me how that is fair and just . ..

And might I add you never provided my with the correlation figures between money and aids cases but if you want e-mail me and I can give you real facts..

These arguements of yours simply don't deserve a response but here I am back again.. your great at getting under my skin at least.

Overall it is going to take multilateral efforts to solve this. From a moral perspective if this view is what is in your heart.. then I can't say anything to change that but please don't dispute facts and numbers.


Your right like I said it is more then money.. This is about humanity and obvioulsy it brings out the truth of humanitity and the line down the middle of understanding and ignorance.bury your head in the sand if you like or have your view .. you have to answer to only yourself at the end of the day.. But don't put the burden of your stereotype of Africa on millions fighting for there lives..

Quote:
Until the blacks in Africa change their ways, stop the drugs - sex - needles, and look at Cuba as being a pioneer, millions more of Africans will continue to die
Wow gee I'm glad you pointed it out that it was all black people in Africa.. hmmm was that on the BBC or did you come up with that yourself.. I will have to let my caucassion counterparts in Africa who have been infected with the disease know that it's okay you don't have it .. your not black.. Now I am just wondering to .. should I also make the phone call to the businesmen , politicians , police, and the rich to let them know too that they can't possibly have aids or have spread aids either .. it's only the poor folk... yep thats it .. it's the black's and the poor, those dang good for nothin drug users and prostitutes when will they ever learn! ( In case you missed the tone this is me be sarcastict )

U2 Lipstickboy Am I offended by your posts , your dang right I am offended , most of all it just makes me sad . Maybe my posts offend people to and I apologise for that .. I don't claim to be the most intelligent person at all , . In order for me to feel like I have the right to speak about this topic I constantly eduacte and inform myslef on everythng related to it.. one because it's my job.. two because I have a need to .. I try to seperate my emotion I have to to make a diffirence.. but these statements got the better of me.. I apologise anything I said offended some of the folks here that have submitted very intelligent well thought out posts.. you guys thanks.you are much better then I.

Aids does not discriminate but people do!!
An lastley when where you given the judge and juror right to put labels on people in Africa. When did you give up on people and what are you so afraid of that you can't open your eyes.
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Old 01-16-2004, 06:34 PM   #94
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Katey, you aren't the only one getting annoyed at U2LipstickBoy's posts. I hope he educates his mind more instead of continuing with his offending posts.
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Old 01-16-2004, 07:42 PM   #95
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hmmm maybe we should round up all the people with genetic disorders and castrate them so that they can't pass it on to others. mmmmmm eugenics. super fun. Maybe then we can round up those with below average IQs, we don't want them spreading their stupidity, now do we.

Yes aids rates are going up in africa and more money is being spent there, but making a correlation between the two is illogical. Any disease left unchecked is going to spread exponentially, it would spread at the same rate, if not more if, if we gave them no money. I bet you are taking two sections of information from the WHO and putting them together yourself. I'm sure somewhere in their information it says that aid to africa has increased and also somewhere that aids rates have increased, then you put these to facts together your self. I highly doubt that anywhere in information directly from the WHO it directly states that aid money causes an increase in aids rates. If I'm wrong why don't you give us all a link and prove it to us . Anyone who has taken any type of statistical analysis class knows that just because two factors are increasing doesn't necessarily mean that there is any correlation between the two. Example: Fact 1 - Sex on television is increasing. Fact 2 - The number of stray cats and dogs are increasing. Using your logic: All the sex on tv is making dogs and cats horney and increasing the number of offspring they are having. Example 2: Obesity in children is on the rise. The number of SUVs on the road is on the rise. Conclusion - SUVs are making kids fat. Obviously these factors have nothing to do with one another.

Yes cultural issues are at play in the number of aids cases in africa, but doesn't it make sense that funding for eduction would help to change this? Also aid to Africa is not only being spent on the aids epidemic. A lot of it is going to fight the unimaginable poverty on the continent (which is in large part due to factors caused NOT caused by Africans, after affects of colonialism, apartheid, etc). A lot more money goes into saving starving children, vacinations, and providing clean water and basic sanitation. Things that I believe are a basic human right, and at the very least a worthy cause to anyone with a soul.


Hopefully you read all of that and actually thought about it. I'm pretty sure this is the last time I'm going to post in this thread. If you just spit the same spiel back to us again we'll all know that discussing this with you is a waste of time (more than enough people have posted logical arguments that you have ignored) and we should just let the thread drop because there is no getting through to you and you probably like the attention this is bringing you anyway, not to mention the aggrivation this is causing all of us.
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Old 01-16-2004, 09:52 PM   #96
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I wonīt even comment on the posts blaming the Africans for having AIDS and stating that Cuba has the so-called "cure" for AIDS, itīs just pathetic.

But if there is a country really sucessful on fighting AIDS and preventing it to spread out of control is Brazil. A combination of educational programs in schools since early years, prevention campaigns openly discussing and showing the use of condoms and disposable needles, and the free access to antiretroviral drugs have been the key to our success. Thatīs what should and can be done in Africa IMO.

Here is the latest article I found on the issue, dated Jan 16 2004, from BBC News:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3401945.stm

Brazil strikes HIV/Aids drug deal

Brazil's Government has reached a deal with pharmaceutical companies to reduce the price of HIV/Aids anti-retroviral drugs by around a third.
Health Minister Humberto Costa said the deal would save the government about $100 million this year.

Brazil is one of the few countries to offer all HIV/Aids sufferers anti-retroviral drugs free of charge.

Its programme has been described as a model for the developing world, as has its campaign to prevent infection.

"These were hard negotiations but the result was very positive," said Mr Costa.

"With the savings we have made we are guaranteeing the continuation of the programme and ensuring that every Brazilian who needs treatment for Aids receives adequate treatment."

The price cuts bring the total annual cost of Brazil's HIV/Aids treatment programme to its lowest level since 1999 - $180m - while cutting the average cost per patient to a new low of $1,200.

In recent weeks, Brazil closed deals with the international pharmaceutical firms Roche Holding AG, Gilead Sciences Inc and Abbott Laboratories.

The Latin American state is believed to have halved its toll of Aids-related deaths since 1996, when distribution of free drugs began.

Under its leftist President, Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva, it has also taken its campaign abroad, pledging last year to build a plant in Mozambique to produce cheap anti-retroviral drugs for Africans.


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Old 01-16-2004, 11:55 PM   #97
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I really want to thank everyone who contributed to this thread because it gave me so much more to debate with when I am talking with others on this subject. So thanks for the articles and wisdom, everyone.
Even to U2LipstickBoy because I actually ran into someone else that thinks/talks like this. No so much about Cuba but, well the other stuff that was said. Geez.
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Old 01-17-2004, 12:49 AM   #98
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Miami Herald 1991 , now it's 2004

from : Miami Herald; Sunday, November 10, 1991
by : Elinor Burkett, Herald Staff Writer

"Cuba is the only nation on the planet to halt -- virtually -- the spread of AIDS.

How does a society balance the rights of the infected against the need to contain a lethal disease?

All countries -- except Cuba -- allow people to make their own decisions about AIDS. To test or not test. To make love or not make love.

Cuba is the international exception. "

For the year 2001, there were 120 people to die of AIDS in Cuba, that was for the whole year. For the year 2001, there were 360,000 people to die of AIDS in South Africa.

In 2001, an AIDS infected person in Cuba was dying every 3 days. In South Africa, an AIDS infected person was dying every 2 minutes. South Africa must adopt the policy of Cuba to stop the AIDS problem, Bono and Beyonce dancing on the stage isn't going to affect the fatality rates.
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Old 01-17-2004, 01:02 AM   #99
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how are you supposed to round up the millions of people in africa with aids? there are too many. regarless of any ethical reasons, it is impracticle.

sure rounding up people will stop the spread, but is it the right thing to do? And to use one of your arguments, don't have sex before your married or share needles and your safe, you don't need to round people up if you're "doing the right thing" cause you have nothing to worry about. Do you think we should round people up with other diseases to stop their spread too? How about genetic disorder?
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Old 01-17-2004, 01:13 AM   #100
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Re: Miami Herald 1991 , now it's 2004

Quote:
[i]

For the year 2001, there were 120 people to die of AIDS in Cuba, that was for the whole year. [/B]
Yet they found a cure? Interesting definition of "cure".

And you can't compare the numbers of the people who die, the percentages of people who have AIDS aren't even close. You are comparing a country with the resources and education on the disease in place to a whole continent that has neither. You're argurment doesn't work. Just stop for a second and take a look.
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Old 01-17-2004, 01:18 AM   #101
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*sarcasm*

oh come one bonovoxsupastar, we should all be more like Cuba, that shining beacon of freedom and democracy. Who wouldn't want to live Cuba . VIVA CUBA . Maybe we can start taking human rights tips from China and North Korea next.
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Old 01-17-2004, 01:46 AM   #102
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All right enough from U2 lipstickboy shall we end this post on a happier note.. looks like I would say our Prime Minister in Canada is going to move forward with ammendments to Bill C-56 ( the Drug Patent Act) which will allow access to generic drugs and stop the block from Big Pharma companies. That means more drugs getting to Africa yahoooooooooooo!! Not that I at all take Paul Martins word forgranted I will be a royal pain in his ass untill the ammendments are made and after that until we bring our funding up to where it should be .7% of GNP.. But it is a step in the right direction.
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Old 01-17-2004, 04:51 PM   #103
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another day is over in Africa

Another day is almost over in Africa, with 30 blacks dying every hour of AIDS, that's well over 700 blacks that died and were thrown in any old ditch today.

At most, with 1 person dying every 3 days in Cuba from AIDS, odds are that nobody died from AIDS today in Cuba.

You can say what you want about Cuba and their government and you can make juvenile jokes and compare them to North Korea, but we can clearly see from the statistics above (which can all be found at international health websites) which country has better policies to protect the health of its citizens.

It's so vital to keep reading more newspapers and to constantly be striving to absorb more information. More people were gunned down on the streets of America yesterday than were killed in North and South Korea combined, so you don't want to be making juvenile jokes about other countries until you read the international newspapers and consult statistics about these countries. The world is going to pass you be as long as you keep your eyes closed and don't see how other countries are solving problems.
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Old 01-17-2004, 05:15 PM   #104
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Having read the article in its entirety (thanks ThatGuy!) I'd like to point out a few discrepancies in LipstickGuy's posts and invite him to respond.

Quote:
As long as you stay away from drug needles and premarital intercourse, it's impossible to get AIDS.
AIDS can also be transmitted from mother to child, through blood transfusions or use of unsterilised medical supplies. Therefore a person could have AIDS even if they have never used intravenous drugs or had extramarital intercourse. Do you agree?

Quote:
The cure for AIDS has been around for over 20 years now.
As you stated in a later post, a cure means "recovery from disease" - can you please give details of how many people have recovered from AIDS and what treatment they received in order to recover.

Quote:
The World Health Organization has studies showing that the more money being given is just prolonging the lives of people that already have AIDS
As there is currently no cure for AIDS, of course medication can only prolong the life of a person with HIV/AIDS. Are you opposed to this? If so, why?

Quote:
Cuba didn't need Bono or Beyonce dancing on a stage, Cuba didn't need $ billions to eliminate AIDS.
What leads you to believe that it's appropriate to make comparisons between Cuba and the entire continent of Africa? Do you not believe that differences in population size, financial situation (yes, Cuba is a poor country, but it is not as poor as many African countries),political system and number of people affected by HIV/AIDS mean that it is not a helpful comparison?

Also, according to the article you cited, Cuba has not eliminated AIDS.

Quote:
the World Health Organization also has shown how money is making the problem worse.


Could you provide a link or details of how to access the report in which the WHO make this statement?

Quote:
It's too bad that more people don't read the newspaper, NY TIMES, the BBC along with countless other news sources such as 60 MINUTES have shown the simple effort Cuba went to when they eliminated AIDS.


Once again, Cuba has not eliminated AIDS and even the BBC article you refer to acknowledges this.

Quote:
Cuba viewed the people with AIDS as a sunk cost and Cuba did not spend one dollar on the people that already had AIDS.
Actually according to the BBC article: "Unable to afford the expensive anti-retroviral medicines produced in developed countries, Cuban chemists analysed the drugs' chemical components and set about recreating their own. Cuba now produces sufficient quantities of seven anti-viral medications for all its patients."

Do you agree that this means that Cuba has invested money in treatment for people with AIDS?

Quote:
the recovery for Cuba's high infection rate was to keep the healthy people away from the AIDS infected people
Again, the article contradicts you. "The quarantine system includes eight weeks of education and drug support, after which the patient is free to leave."

Quote:
Until the blacks in Africa change their ways, stop the drugs - sex - needles
Why do you find it necessary to point out that the majority of Africans are Black? Does skin colour have anything to do with HIV/AIDS? Do you believe that white people in Africa aren't affected by HIV/AIDS? And do you acknowledge that these diseases are not only spread through sex or drug use?

While we're on the subject, how do you propose to educate people about the ways in which AIDS is transmitted if you oppose any financial investment in AIDS prevention?

Quote:
A full-scale prevention mandated by the Cuban government has leds to the elimination of AIDS in Cuba, hence, Cuba has cured the problem.
For the third time, AIDS hasn't been eliminated from Cuba. Your own article acknowledges this.

Quote:
In 2001, an AIDS infected person in Cuba was dying every 3 days. In South Africa, an AIDS infected person was dying every 2 minutes.
Does this statistic take account of the differences in the population of Cuba and South Africa? If not, do you agree that this invalidates the statistic?

And finally, and for the third time of asking, what is your opinion of the Cuban government on other issues?

Please do respond to these questions. I'll be looking forward to reading your answers.
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Old 01-17-2004, 05:18 PM   #105
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Ooops, forgot one more question I wanted to add.

Quote:
While mother-child transmission is a huge problem in African countries, for example, in Cuba, the government ensures that all HIV-positive mothers are treated with prophylactic AZT therapy up to delivery and then the babies are delivered by caesarean section. (from the BBC article LipstickGuy refers to)
Do you think that it would be pratical for African countries to introduce this policy, given that the majority of people with AIDS have no access to medications such as AZT and also that in many areas of Africa there aren't facilities for an operation such as a C-section to be performed without endangering the life of the mother?

Again, looking forward to your reponse.
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