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Old 01-27-2003, 03:57 PM   #61
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Originally posted by Blacksword
It is most certainly a race issue. The West's attitude has been disgustingly paternal right up to the present. We seem to consider Africa a dissolute son who won't get his act togetehr and has no intention of doing so. WE CREATED THE PROBLEMS

You don't gut a continent with colonialsim for a couple centuries, destroy all of its social structures, grind its people into the dust, keep them uneducated and unskilled and then expect them to be just fine when you up and leave one day. Then you tell them to solve their problems with Western methods (cause those are the best of course) at the same time as raping the countries of teh resources and any wealth left. Then you bring down anyone who resists you (Patrice Lumumba in the Congo) and keep petty dictators in power. To expect Africans to do just fine after all that would be a grand joke if it weren't for the millions of African corpses piling up every year.

The West has a blood debt that growls larger with every passing hour. And still it treats Africans as children.

This kind of racism is easy since you never see the target of you rprejudice and therefore are never confronted by it. THEY are over there so passing judgement is very easy.
Your post makes a lot of sense Blacksword. It is sad to think of our country as one that is still racist. I hope that the younger generations in our country are moving beyond racism.
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Old 01-27-2003, 09:14 PM   #62
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Originally posted by Scarletwine
I definitely think race has an effect on our response to the crises in Africa. It has been a factor in our foreign relations forever. We have treated Africa as a second class continent. With the Administrations intense ecomonic, racial, and religious conservatism this trend will continue.

Sherry in your other thread you praised my senator, Mike Dewine for his backing of 180,000 million in aid. I feel that is such a small amount and almost half of what was promised (300,000), that I have no praise for him. It is nothing more than a TOKEN a bone thrown for effect. If our government was serious about the issue they would appropriate much more.

How about taking the tax money they are attempting to give to gas-guzzling SUV's and give that to Africa?
:

at the SUV idea. Now there's creative legislation!

I have to say, I don't remember ever mentioning Sen. Dewine. ???

And yes, great post Blacksword. I think it's a subsconscious racism, the kind that doesn't express itself it hatred but rather, though indifference.



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Old 01-27-2003, 09:50 PM   #63
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Just two days ago the Senate yesterday passed by a 69-29 vote its
version of the fiscal year 2003 omnibus appropriations bill, which
includes $180 million for the global fight against HIV/AIDS.
YAAAYYY!! (Now we have to make sure it passes the full Congress.)

Sherry,
I took it from the other thread about calling the Whitehouse Wed.

"The amendment, co-sponsored by Sens. Mike DeWine (R-Ohio) and Dick Durbin (D-Ill.), would authorize about $100 million toward the U.S. contribution to the Global Fund to Fight HIV/AIDS, Tuberculosis and Malaria. ect." Still way too meager.
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Old 01-27-2003, 10:15 PM   #64
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Its the most insidious kind unfortunately and its not just America. Canadains aren't doing much about it either. Just as a reference to the Holocost example, we turned Jews back too. Its moreof that wonderfully British brand of prejudice that we inheritied from our ancestors. The don't ask don't tell, not in my back yard prejudice. Its all very polite and all of course. The problem especially in hte area where I live is the number of nice comfortably well off people. You know the kind the type who have the cars, the new house every few years etc. Right around my church new houses are going up and they start at around $800 000 Canadian. A citizens group in Oakville the town where these houses are going up (I'm from the next city over - still rich but not ridiculously so, though I know I most certainly am not) violently protested the opening of a Salvation Army shelter in their neighborhood. They were screaming about how the homeless people whould rape their children and other garbage. And we expect that sort of people to care about Africa? We are much too comfortable here in North America and that has bred fear and even hatred of anyone in need. They represent the price of our hedonistic lifestyle that which we fat Westerners enjoy most and we hate them for the reminder. We think we have come so far yet we still live in a world where the rich hate the poor for being poor. Social Darwinism is still very much alive and well.

Well its time for people to realize that no degree of "fitness" gave them their riches. It was pure chance that we were born into the life that we have. I like to think of Bono's line in the Band-Aid Christmas single "tonight thank God its them instead of you". Only grace put you where you are. And to whom much is given much is expected. We are our brothers' and sisters' keepers especially when we thorugh our society have played such a part in creating and maintaining their plight.

Well enough pontificating... sorry I just get worked up over this stuff. I'm guilty of turning my head too. I'd heard about it, but it wasn't until I read an article in the Presbyterian Chuch's national publication recently that I really gave thought to this issue.
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Old 01-04-2004, 07:19 PM   #65
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hi,

I tend to agree w him, but I'm not feeling very well tonite and I just barely typed out a funny response to a funny topic, wherein this was on the 'similar threads' under topic postings- so I clicked on to see what was up here.

I hope to repond further, oh, some days from now when I feel better and have more money to get back on this public net place.
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Old 01-04-2004, 08:23 PM   #66
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Well nice to see this post back . Here is my two cents worth
All through history countries have failed at times to come to the aid of other countires and nations.. the question will always arise duty to country vrs. our moral duty . History judged them , we judged them in their actions. And as it has been said so many time before this emergency in Africa is that big that we will be judged to on how we respond . The ramifications of leaving Africa behind on this are more then just moral.

So lets put this in to humanitarian terms instead of per country . If we except individuals regardless of race, religion, cultural beliefs etc. etc. as equal truly equal then simply we would not let this happen, then 6500 lives a day in Africa should hit right at the heartstrings of who we are as human being because it is absolutely ridicoulous.. the morality of what that means for me is just to much to do nothing.. I also understand everybody has the right to feel different about how there money is spent by their government and if truly you feel that money should not go to foreign aid and development then that is your right and not mine to judge or anyone elses..

But by the grace of god and for reasons I'm not aware of I have been given a good life in a great country and I feel a responsibility to use what I have been given to make a difference for others wherever I can .. thats my choice . For me I have the guilt of sticking my head in the sand for to long.

If we really put the same value on an african life as our own then it is way paste the time for excuses or laying blame .. this emergency is so much bigger then anyone person or country , anyone ego ,any religious institution . And it is going to take humanity at it's very best to turn the tide.. luckily I believe in the power of the human spirit
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Old 01-16-2004, 03:22 AM   #67
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Bono and money can't help Africa

Bono and all the money in the world can't help Africa.

The blacks in Africa want to continue having sex daily and continue to pump out as many children as they can. Giving them $billions is only condoning their behavior and it's not throwing water on the fire, it's throwing gasoline on the fire.

The cure for AIDS has been around for 20 years now, and it doesn't cost anything to buy.

As long as you stay away from drug needles and premarital intercourse, it's impossible to get AIDS.

The babies that are born with AIDS will just die in a few years anyways, the medication won't help them much.

We told the Africans 20 years ago if they keep doing what they do, they'll continue to get aids,and of course - they didn't change their behavior.

Only one country on this planet has dealt with AIDS and has defeated AIDS, and that is Cuba. Cuba realized that AIDS can spread, and that AIDS is deadly. So, Cuba took all of the AIDS-infected people it knew of into one community, and barred that community from interacting with others, and then CUBA sat back and watch the rates of new aids infection fall until the rate almost hit zero. Now Cuba can claim victory.

The sad thing is, we could have done that in America back in the mid 1980's, but the ACLU and civil rights organizations would have gone crazy if we took all the HIV-infected people and kept them separate from society. So, instead America decided to give these people as much freedom as they want. And now we're here 20 years later looking at more HIV infected people in America than ever before, with young straight girls contracting the disease the fastest, and with thousands dying in America, when it all could have been avoided. A restriction of freedom would have saved so many American lives, it worked wonders in Cuba. Now, 20 years later the ACLU is yelling about the restrictions of freedom the Patriot Act is taking, but we'll see once again in about 20 years how many American lives this Patriot Act will have saved. The problem with total freedom is that it allows your neighbor to do whatever he/she wants to do, and that is not a good thing.
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Old 01-16-2004, 03:42 AM   #68
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That may in fact be the most racist, idiot thing I have ever read on this forum .
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Old 01-16-2004, 09:30 AM   #69
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Originally posted by ILuvLarryMullen
That may in fact be the most racist, idiot thing I have ever read on this forum .
I couldn't agree more.

What an sad thing that U2lipstick boy seems to beLIEve it.
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Old 01-16-2004, 10:23 AM   #70
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Re: Bono and money can't help Africa

Quote:
Originally posted by U2LipstickBoy
Bono and all the money in the world can't help Africa.

The blacks in Africa want to continue having sex daily and continue to pump out as many children as they can. Giving them $billions is only condoning their behavior and it's not throwing water on the fire, it's throwing gasoline on the fire.

The cure for AIDS has been around for 20 years now, and it doesn't cost anything to buy.

As long as you stay away from drug needles and premarital intercourse, it's impossible to get AIDS.

The babies that are born with AIDS will just die in a few years anyways, the medication won't help them much.

We told the Africans 20 years ago if they keep doing what they do, they'll continue to get aids,and of course - they didn't change their behavior.

Only one country on this planet has dealt with AIDS and has defeated AIDS, and that is Cuba. Cuba realized that AIDS can spread, and that AIDS is deadly. So, Cuba took all of the AIDS-infected people it knew of into one community, and barred that community from interacting with others, and then CUBA sat back and watch the rates of new aids infection fall until the rate almost hit zero. Now Cuba can claim victory.

The sad thing is, we could have done that in America back in the mid 1980's, but the ACLU and civil rights organizations would have gone crazy if we took all the HIV-infected people and kept them separate from society. So, instead America decided to give these people as much freedom as they want. And now we're here 20 years later looking at more HIV infected people in America than ever before, with young straight girls contracting the disease the fastest, and with thousands dying in America, when it all could have been avoided. A restriction of freedom would have saved so many American lives, it worked wonders in Cuba. Now, 20 years later the ACLU is yelling about the restrictions of freedom the Patriot Act is taking, but we'll see once again in about 20 years how many American lives this Patriot Act will have saved. The problem with total freedom is that it allows your neighbor to do whatever he/she wants to do, and that is not a good thing.
That is the most hateful and uneducated post I've seen ever. Why don't you educate yourself about the situation in Africa and AIDS before you spew off your hate. I would try and do it myself but the truth is I think it would be a waste of my time.
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Old 01-16-2004, 11:10 AM   #71
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That may in fact be the most racist, idiot thing I have ever read on this forum .

I agree ,
let you that have not sinned throw the first stone, wow U2lipstick boy or whatever your name was that was an a big stone .. thing is it is more like a slingshot you threw.. I hope it doesnt come back on ya.. " i respect your right to your opinion but might I add how wrong I find it to be and sad. I wonder if you could stand face to face with those hit hardest by this in Africa and give them that view.. I'm sorry you feel that way .

And Blacksword.. great post
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Old 01-16-2004, 11:47 AM   #72
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Bono is wrong. It doesn't matter what happens, Christianity won't eve NOT exist. You can't blame God for the things we do. His work, his mission, his church will still remain.
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Old 01-16-2004, 12:35 PM   #73
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The cure for aids is free

Money won't solve the AIDS problem in Africa, it hasn't even solved the AIDS problem in America. America is said to be the richest nation, but 20 years into this AIDS problem, America is facing the highest amount of AIDS-infected citizens that it has ever had. Money doesn't solve the AIDS problem because the cure for AIDS is free. The cure for AIDS has been around for over 20 years now.

At some point, a government has to declare AIDS to be a national killing spree, and they have to take all the AIDS infected people and they have to bar them from making any contact with other people, that is the only way to stop AIDS.

There is a direct correlation in Africa between the increase in money we give to Africa and an increase in new AIDS-infected cases in Africa. The more money we give to Africa over the years has led to more AIDS-infected cases, and that is a FACT. The World Health Organization has studies showing that the more money being given is just prolonging the lives of people that already have AIDS, so now there are more people living longer with AIDS having more children, and thus, giving birth to more AIDS babies.

Back in the 1980's, we threw $ hundreds of millions into Africa, the AIDS-problem got worse. Then the world started throwing $ billions into Africa, and the AIDS problem got worse again. At what point will people realize that money does not solve the AIDS problem, it only makes it worse.

It's sad to see that the world just won't follow the breakthrough precedent that Cuba set. The BBC along with other news agencies has sent reporters to Cuba, and they have all seen the progress. Molly Bentley, a BBC news reporter used these exact words "There has been no dramatic increase in HIV transmission in Cuba since the beginning of the epidemic." Molly went on to say "Cuba's infection rate is one of the lowest in the world." "Cuba has set an example of political leadership in its response to the AIDS crisis", according to Monica Ruiz, from the US National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases.

In about 10 years time, Cuba will not have anyone in their country with AIDS, while Africa will still be burying upwards of 7,000 people a day, and we will see that money does not solve AIDS.
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Old 01-16-2004, 01:50 PM   #74
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At some point, a government has to declare AIDS to be a national killing spree, and they have to take all the AIDS infected people and they have to bar them from making any contact with other people, that is the only way to stop AIDS.
You have got to be kidding me right.. right.. Do you know how obsered you sound.

Quote:
There is a direct correlation in Africa between the increase in money we give to Africa and an increase in new AIDS-infected cases in Africa. The more money we give to Africa over the years has led to more AIDS-infected cases, and that is a FACT. The World Health Organization has studies showing that the more money being given is just prolonging the lives of people that already have AIDS, so now there are more people living longer with AIDS having more children, and thus, giving birth to more AIDS babies.
Okay first of, as well know thes AV's are not a cure for Aids.. yes they prolong life . But again do you know how obsered you sound.. plus I know the WHO statistics and could you please show me the correlation of money to aids casses.. The increase in casses will continue the increase has occured becasue the money has taken and is taking so long to get to them.. It's not like the money arrives and poof there goes the aids cases..

I shouldnt even respond to your post because i find it just .. well there are not words for it but look I am.

You are right in one thing though Money in itself does not solve Aids.. good for you on that point.. Education, prevention, etc.. etc.. Debt relief etc. etc..
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Old 01-16-2004, 02:19 PM   #75
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The cure is free, you don't need money for free stuff

The absurd notion of throwing billions of money to a problem that can be solved for free is killing thousands of Africans. Giving drugs to people in Africa that already have AIDS is allowing these AIDS-infected people to live longer. So, these AIDS-infected people are now living longer, which means they now have more years to give birth to more HIV children, have sex with more people, and share more drug needles... and thus the pyramid scheme has begun.

Africa has been getting international funding for over 15 years now, and the more money Africa gets, the more AIDS-infected people Africa is getting. The money has had more than enough time to sink in, it's time to cut the money off. It's time to stop babying the Africans and treating them like little kids, and let them solve their own problem.

Cuba solved their own AIDS problem. Cuba is light years ahead of America when it comes to AIDS.

The BBC is a respected news agency, the BBC has sent reporters to Cuba, and these BBC reporters all say the same thing - Cuba has the solution, and the solution doesn't cost much money.

Cuba didn't need Bono or Beyonce dancing on a stage, Cuba didn't need $ billions to eliminate AIDS.
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