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Old 03-29-2015, 05:26 PM   #901
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.



Leviticus also mentions tattoos and shellfish, among others, but people conveniently forget about that.

If this guy is gay, he hit the hell trifecta.
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Old 03-29-2015, 07:32 PM   #902
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Sorry to hear about your family.

My point was about the interpretation, using the term "capital offense' defines it as the government and not God's law. It was a really horrible translation, using terms like homosexuality and capital offense, terms that didn't exist back then distort and change the meaning. It would be like substituting car for horse or injecting the internet somehow into the Bible.


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oh, I get you. I had just woken up this morning when I read your post (my brother calling me had kinda started my day with a jolt) and clearly didn't comprehend what you meant.




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That's a really sad story.

I also just fundamentally don't understand it. Maybe if the people fighting could just step back and attempt to gain some perspective in life they would see how little importance this has overall. Given the sort of unspeakable violence and disparity of equality in our world, I am astounded that this would rise to the level of tearing a family apart.
Thank you everyone, first off.

And I'll tell you, I don't get it either. I've always been able to discuss things with my family that we may not fundamentally agree with, but with this situation, something seems to have snapped. One of my relatives that I'm very close with got into a Facebook thing with me about it friday, and it was so hard to deal with because she didn't want to address ANY argument, other than the personal one. None of the larger factors seemed to matter. And then she seemed to accuse me of losing all of my moral integrity, which really hurt, because again, we're close and that stung. But then she called me yesterday to apologize, yet I guess Facebook is what started the fight at church this morning and she was right in the thick of it...so I don't get it.

Bah, anyways...Leviticus, old law, Jesus, new law, love one another, spread the gospel, don't judge, etc.
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Old 03-29-2015, 09:18 PM   #903
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinio...21427677976484
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Old 03-30-2015, 03:59 AM   #904
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Indiana actually made the papers here. It was also suggested the guy pushing the law may try to run for president. That would be charmin'.
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Old 03-30-2015, 06:36 AM   #905
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Here's something a little interesting, my mom told me this and I didn't believe her at first, because of the uproar:

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-...328-story.html

It is strange that this is the one that got people in the uproar, but at the same time, it's also making people aware, so I guess that's good.

The closing paragraphs echo how I feel quite well...it's just all very sad.
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Old 03-31-2015, 12:59 AM   #906
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Would your relatives support adding LGBT citizens as a protected class, like race or gender? To me, that seems like something of a compromise if you're going to pass a bill like this, and it has been the case in other states.

How would they feel if, say, a deeply religious Muslim were to own a bakery and refuse service to women who weren't wearing a hijab? Is it his religious freedom to refuse service to women he deems as immodest and immoral?

When we were looking at wedding venues in DC, we did come across a really great space that was owned by, I think, some Jesuits. Our planner looked into it, and they told her that they only allow weddings there between people of their faith. I think that was a way of saying, "no gays." I assume a Catholic and a Jew could get married there, or maybe not. I can't remember the exact wording ...

Long story short, they said no, and I admit, it does hurt a little bit. But we quickly moved on and found a fairly perfect location for us, and we're happy. I think I'd do the same if it were a baker or photographer -- I wouldn't want a bigot -- and it may be a sincerely held religious belief, but it's also a bigoted one -- to get my money. He might get a piece of my mind and a hilarious Yelp review, but I'm all about the grassroots, which is where we really win.

In any event, I don't think that your religion gives you the right to refuse service to anyone. And I would normally caution my LGBT brothers and sisters to be gracious winners, and believe the best in the other opponent. But after so many decades of discrimination and begging for the most meager of protections, fuck it. We are one organized, effective group of people. And we will not be second class citizens any longer.
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Old 03-31-2015, 04:29 AM   #907
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Honestly? Probably not. It was a brick wall of nothing trying to converse about this over the weekend with some of them.

The Hijab argument is the one I keep making, and no one seems to want to listen to me. Well, not the people who I've been arguing with all weekend, anyways.
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Old 03-31-2015, 08:39 AM   #908
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When we were looking at wedding venues in DC, we did come across a really great space that was owned by, I think, some Jesuits. Our planner looked into it, and they told her that they only allow weddings there between people of their faith. I think that was a way of saying, "no gays." I assume a Catholic and a Jew could get married there, or maybe not. I can't remember the exact wording ...
Far be it for me to defend the church but I don't think this is at all a way of saying "no gays", though the end result to them may have that added benefit. The Catholic Church has very strict rules about weddings - must be inside a designated "sacred" space like a church, chapel, etc (i.e. cannot be outside), must be between two Catholics or a Catholic and an orthodox Christian without permission or between a Catholic and a Protestant (with special dispensation, presence of bishop or pastor), etc. So actually I would be shocked if they had a Catholic marrying a Jew on the premises - typically you need dispensation from a bishop, you have to promise to raise all your children as Catholics and so on. All this to say is that almost nobody would even attempt to marry in a Catholic ceremony with those rules in the background.
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Old 03-31-2015, 09:23 AM   #909
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The Gay Thread

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Far be it for me to defend the church but I don't think this is at all a way of saying "no gays", though the end result to them may have that added benefit. The Catholic Church has very strict rules about weddings - must be inside a designated "sacred" space like a church, chapel, etc (i.e. cannot be outside), must be between two Catholics or a Catholic and an orthodox Christian without permission or between a Catholic and a Protestant (with special dispensation, presence of bishop or pastor), etc. So actually I would be shocked if they had a Catholic marrying a Jew on the premises - typically you need dispensation from a bishop, you have to promise to raise all your children as Catholics and so on. All this to say is that almost nobody would even attempt to marry in a Catholic ceremony with those rules in the background.


It was a banquet hall, not a religious space/chapel, and wedding receptions are held there frequently.

I wonder if they would marry two non-virgins who had not just. Gone to confession beforehand.
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Old 03-31-2015, 10:07 AM   #910
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So what would they do if both gays were catholic?
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And if U2 EVER did Hawkmoon live....and the version from the Lovetown Tour, my uterus would leave my body and fling itself at Bono - for realz.
Don't worry baby, it's gonna be all right. Uncertainty can be a guiding light...
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Old 03-31-2015, 10:28 AM   #911
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So what would they do if both gays were catholic?
Stone them.
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Old 03-31-2015, 10:30 AM   #912
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It was a banquet hall, not a religious space/chapel, and wedding receptions are held there frequently.

I wonder if they would marry two non-virgins who had not just. Gone to confession beforehand.
OK, I misunderstood you then. You are talking about a reception venue, not a ceremony venue. That's obviously different. I've known church venues to rent to non-Catholics (usually if you're not a member of the parish you have to pay an additional fee).

Yes, they will marry two non-virgins. There is no requirement to have a confession in advance, at least it wasn't for us (and we lived together).
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Old 03-31-2015, 10:38 AM   #913
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My wife was forced to complete her Confirmation as an adult (she had moved as a teenager and didn't finish CCD and get Confirmed) in order for us to be married in the Catholic Church. Also had to do the pre-cana thing, but fortunately they had changed to where there was a one day class so it wasn't that big of a deal. Apparently it used to take months to complete the pre cana and used to be a lot more intrusive (I think thats the word I want here). No confession required.
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Old 03-31-2015, 11:11 AM   #914
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Stone them.
I have no issues with getting stoned.
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And if U2 EVER did Hawkmoon live....and the version from the Lovetown Tour, my uterus would leave my body and fling itself at Bono - for realz.
Don't worry baby, it's gonna be all right. Uncertainty can be a guiding light...
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Old 03-31-2015, 11:22 AM   #915
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So what would they do if both gays were catholic?

i am a lapsed catholic.

all about the secular humanism tinged with mild agnosticism and Buddhist undercurrents these days.
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