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Old 08-12-2014, 04:39 AM   #646
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Well, it's very complicated on a spiritual sense, if you can understand. Just because times have changed, doesn't mean that the Bible has. So there's this big rift behind the idea of what is acceptable vs. what is Biblically OK. I know I've spoken enough about it in here for you all to know what side of the fence I lean on. I've spent years figuring out where I stand and it just seems to me that the world is a much different place and the best I can do is care about the people around me and not do harm to one another. So, I just try to let people live their lives, you know?
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Old 08-12-2014, 01:36 PM   #647
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I think that's the biggest crux of the matter. To let people live their lives. If people started to focus on their own lives, and not feel entitled to make decisions that heavily impact other people's lives, that'd be pretty great. We can all get along that way.
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Old 08-12-2014, 01:38 PM   #648
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I mean, it's funny what people pick and choose to accept from the Bible. Many people seem to ignore the very strong sentiment present in the New Testament to spread God's message, but not to judge. Let God sort it out, is basically the way I take it. That doesn't mean to remain silent about the message itself and what it says, but I don't think it's meant to mean, berate everyone who doesn't agree with you, spread hatred and definitely, definitely tell people they're going to hell
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Old 08-12-2014, 01:46 PM   #649
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That's pretty much the nice sentiment I have with the Bible.. the whole message of spreading love and be kind to thy neighbour, that's a good thing to teach people. There's plenty of good stuff in there, I just don't get why people are using it as an excuse to hate or exclude others. It's such a shame.
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And if U2 EVER did Hawkmoon live....and the version from the Lovetown Tour, my uterus would leave my body and fling itself at Bono - for realz.
Don't worry baby, it's gonna be all right. Uncertainty can be a guiding light...
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Old 08-12-2014, 01:47 PM   #650
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That's pretty much the nice sentiment I have with the Bible.. the whole message of spreading love and be kind to thy neighbour, that's a good thing to teach people. There's plenty of good stuff in there, I just don't get why people are using it as an excuse to hate or exclude others. It's such a shame.
We are in absolute agreement, here.

This was also a really nice and pleasant conversation, I enjoyed it
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Old 08-12-2014, 02:01 PM   #651
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See, we can be civil while not completely agreeing on a subject. That may be a first here.
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And if U2 EVER did Hawkmoon live....and the version from the Lovetown Tour, my uterus would leave my body and fling itself at Bono - for realz.
Don't worry baby, it's gonna be all right. Uncertainty can be a guiding light...
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Old 08-12-2014, 02:05 PM   #652
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It's refreshing
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Old 08-12-2014, 02:06 PM   #653
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You're not hurting me by living your life, I'm not hurting you by living my life. And that's how it should be I think.
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And if U2 EVER did Hawkmoon live....and the version from the Lovetown Tour, my uterus would leave my body and fling itself at Bono - for realz.
Don't worry baby, it's gonna be all right. Uncertainty can be a guiding light...
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Old 08-12-2014, 02:12 PM   #654
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I mean, it's funny what people pick and choose to accept from the Bible. Many people seem to ignore the very strong sentiment present in the New Testament to spread God's message, but not to judge. Let God sort it out, is basically the way I take it. That doesn't mean to remain silent about the message itself and what it says, but I don't think it's meant to mean, berate everyone who doesn't agree with you, spread hatred and definitely, definitely tell people they're going to hell

I'm jumping in late to this thread, but your comments about the Bible galvanized me into replying.

The most famous statement against homosexuality is in Leviticus (and this statement is geared toward men - there are no statements about homosexual women). But it's been stated by many scholars that the passage was misinterpreted from the original language.

You mention "picking and choosing" and that is a key point. If one were to read ALL of Leviticus, I guarantee you that we are all horrid sinners. There are instructions about when to mate, when not to mate, what to eat, how to prepare it, and on and on. Back then, there weren't 7B+ people. It was viewed as a "waste" not to procreate, especially given the short life expectancy of most people. This is why the Bible has comments on masturbation or having sex for "fun" (including homosexual interactions).

But as you wrote, the world has changed. Sticking to a misinterpretation of a few passages written thousands of years ago seems illogical.

I prefer the New Testament. Jesus never once mentions homosexuality or masturbation as a sin. Jesus had his moments of childhood rambunctiousness (recall him preaching at the age of 12 without telling his parents, then almost telling them off stating where else would he be - in today's world, we might call that being a "brat"), anger (destroying merchants' tables in the temple) and even doubt ("My God, have you forsaken me?"). This is why looking toward an Old Testament filled with mythical about creation and floods (numerous other documents have the same creation story and mention worldwide floods, but they are considered myths), genealogy, and instructions hardly seem relevant to today.

Plus, While there is considerable debate about whether Jesus was married, it is well accepted that Peter, often deemed the "first Pope" was. Yet, why are many ministers in various faiths not allowed to marry? It seems man-kind is all too quick to interpret the Bible to best suit himself/themselves.

This is why your last statement is the most powerful - "not to judge. Let God sort it out". Perhaps if we all lived this way a bit more, life would be better for everyone.
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Old 08-12-2014, 05:21 PM   #655
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And to add to my post above:

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Old 08-12-2014, 09:04 PM   #656
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Plus, While there is considerable debate about whether Jesus was married, it is well accepted that Peter, often deemed the "first Pope" was. Yet, why are many ministers in various faiths not allowed to marry?

Interesting points that you raise here. I found out quite recently that there are several Roman Catholic churches - in full communion with Rome - that allow married priests (but not female priests, and I doubt if they would allow married gay priests, barring of course priests in heterosexual marriages that are closeted gays, lol ). As a baptised but lapsed Catholic, this was complete news to me - and also, by his own admission, was complete news to my elderly acquaintance who was amazed to encounter married CATHOLIC priests in his class when he was pursuing an MPhil in Theology.

One is the Lebanese-based Maronite church, article about them here:

Getting Lebanon's Catholics to work and play well together | National Catholic Reporter

I will also mention in passing that the same elderly acquaintance is a member of a Masonic-type Catholic lay organisation which traces its origins to the time of the first crusades, and is also fully accredited and recogised by the Vatican, that - unlike the actual Freemasons - does admit women members. Its official patron in Ireland? The current Roman Catholic Primate of Ireland. As you say in America, go figure!

http://www.holysepulchre.ie/
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Old 09-05-2014, 11:56 AM   #657
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Old 09-19-2014, 06:36 PM   #658
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Um...
NME News Former member of Tatu says she would 'condemn a gay son' in homophobic TV interview | NME.COM
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Old 09-19-2014, 09:49 PM   #659
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"I have many gay friends. I believe that being gay is all still better than murderers, thieves or drug addicts. If you choose out of all this, being gay is a little better than the rest."

Read more at NME News Former member of Tatu says she would 'condemn a gay son' in homophobic TV interview | NME.COM
Keep digging.
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Old 09-20-2014, 01:17 AM   #660
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I always thought they were lesbians. That's about as homophobic as homophobia gets.
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