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Old 05-08-2014, 08:15 PM   #451
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but simply that I was young

right. you grew up.
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Old 05-08-2014, 09:04 PM   #452
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What? What exactly are you basing this on?
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Old 05-08-2014, 10:01 PM   #453
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Old 05-08-2014, 10:14 PM   #454
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I don't mean to sound snarky. Wrote that in a hurry. But I think most men in high school and college have some level of discomfort, even when they are gay themselves. But maturity usually kicks in, as does some world experience, and to retain adios cent attitudes towards gays well into adulthood is evidence of misogyny, discomfort with deviations from traditional gender roles.
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Old 05-08-2014, 10:21 PM   #455
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What? What exactly are you basing this on?
This is the reason that Irvine mentioned in another thread there is an epidemiologial designation called 'men who have sex with men' (MSM), and less commonly, WSW. There's a fair number of men out there who identify as straight but for one reason or another have sex with men sometimes. One of the most common reasons is simply because it's a lot easier to get sex from another man than a woman. There are guys who romantically attach to women and may not be attracted to men at all but appreciate the fact that a strings-free blow job can be had for the price of a post on craigslist or Grinder. A bit of googling around, or just asking a gay friend if he's ever done a straight guy, will reveal this phenomenon fairly quickly.
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Old 05-08-2014, 11:39 PM   #456
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This is the reason that Irvine mentioned in another thread there is an epidemiologial designation called 'men who have sex with men' (MSM), and less commonly, WSW. There's a fair number of men out there who identify as straight but for one reason or another have sex with men sometimes. One of the most common reasons is simply because it's a lot easier to get sex from another man than a woman. There are guys who romantically attach to women and may not be attracted to men at all but appreciate the fact that a strings-free blow job can be had for the price of a post on craigslist or Grinder. A bit of googling around, or just asking a gay friend if he's ever done a straight guy, will reveal this phenomenon fairly quickly.


Yes.
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Old 05-09-2014, 07:54 AM   #457
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This is the reason that Irvine mentioned in another thread there is an epidemiologial designation called 'men who have sex with men' (MSM), and less commonly, WSW. There's a fair number of men out there who identify as straight but for one reason or another have sex with men sometimes. One of the most common reasons is simply because it's a lot easier to get sex from another man than a woman. There are guys who romantically attach to women and may not be attracted to men at all but appreciate the fact that a strings-free blow job can be had for the price of a post on craigslist or Grinder. A bit of googling around, or just asking a gay friend if he's ever done a straight guy, will reveal this phenomenon fairly quickly.

No, I know there are men who do this I'm just curious about identifying them as straight?
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Old 05-09-2014, 08:26 AM   #458
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They identify as straight, which I gather is the defining factor. As far as I've read, sexual orientation is not about who you have sex with but who you orient towards in a love relationship. Who you're attracted to, fall in love with, want to be with forever, that kind of thing. There are lots and lots of situations in which a straight person might choose gay sex--prison, the military, the priesthood, having a partner who avoids sex, having a high libido and a low concern with being close to a partner, enacting one's homophobia by establishing dominance over fags, and so on.

If you love men and seek them out for your most meaningful relationships but are married to a woman, you are still gay. If you love women and live with women but seek out men for easy meaningless sex, you're a straight MSM.
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Old 05-09-2014, 08:37 AM   #459
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The Gay Thread

That's the irony.

People think being gay is about sex, when it's really about love.
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Old 05-09-2014, 08:59 AM   #460
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That's the irony.

People think being gay is about sex, when it's really about love.

I agree.
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Old 05-09-2014, 09:02 AM   #461
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Physical attraction is a major part of it, of course, but the reason it's called an orientation is the emotional aspect.
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Old 05-09-2014, 09:22 AM   #462
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They identify as straight, which I gather is the defining factor. As far as I've read, sexual orientation is not about who you have sex with but who you orient towards in a love relationship. Who you're attracted to, fall in love with, want to be with forever, that kind of thing. There are lots and lots of situations in which a straight person might choose gay sex--prison, the military, the priesthood, having a partner who avoids sex, having a high libido and a low concern with being close to a partner, enacting one's homophobia by establishing dominance over fags, and so on.

If you love men and seek them out for your most meaningful relationships but are married to a woman, you are still gay. If you love women and live with women but seek out men for easy meaningless sex, you're a straight MSM.


I'm not sure if the priesthood is a good example for that. For the most part I understand what you are saying, but part of sexuality is who you are attracted to and part of sex is being attracted to. They might identify themselves as straight but their sexuality seems more elastic, and I have to wonder how much of this is about shame?
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Old 05-09-2014, 01:54 PM   #463
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That's the irony.

People think being gay is about sex, when it's really about love.
Yup. I know plenty of girls that have kissed or made out with a girl some time in their life(usually teenage period or student life, most often booze involved). Yet most of them are pretty much straight. It was mostly curiosity and such.

What still baffles me is that the general consensus is that for girls, this is all a-okay. Yet if two guys do that, they're obviously gay? Where did this double standard ever come from?

I know quite a lot of guys who have done it too, pretty sure most of them are straight.

Then again, there's also this girl who has kissed with more than one woman on more than one occasion... who still claims she's straight. Yet she's rather young, and it pains me to see the conflict in her. I hope she finds her way, cause it gives a lot of rest. I'm glad I was never in much conflict, but I have friends who were having a hard time figuring things out. I just realised I didn't actually prefer one gender over the other and accepted that was what it was. I can imagine it's much more complicated for a guy too, as that still has the major taboo. It's just so weird that there's such double standards..
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Old 05-09-2014, 02:28 PM   #464
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Because misogyny.

It's upsetting for some to see a man "acting" like a woman.
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Old 05-09-2014, 02:53 PM   #465
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I'm not sure if the priesthood is a good example for that. For the most part I understand what you are saying, but part of sexuality is who you are attracted to and part of sex is being attracted to. They might identify themselves as straight but their sexuality seems more elastic, and I have to wonder how much of this is about shame?
Whic If you mean 'they', MSM, many of them do not have more elastic sexuality--that's the whole reason they don't identify as gay or bi. If you do a bit of poking around to find comments by MSM and the gay men who have sex with them, homophobia is a pretty clear subxtext to the relationship. Some of the ones I've read are that 'I like getting blown by a man because I like to degrade my partner and you just can't do that with a woman any more' or, 'I like it because there's no emotional connection, it's just purely physical." and "With a woman it's too much work. This way I can just call somebody and go over for sex in 15 minutes, then go on with my day' and things like that. Many gay men report exactly that-- that the straight man just wants sex without putting in emotion work and sees gay men as an easily exploitable resource.

Certainly though there are cases where shame may make a true gay man insist he is straight while still having sex with men. This is especially true among people of color, where the stigma against gay men is much, much stronger. Among themselves they may insist that it's just sex, or that they aren't gay because they never 'take it'. There's a term for men of color who keep their gay orientation secret, the down low. I think there's a documentary about down low culture by that name.

When I mentioned the priesthood, I was thinking specifically of male-only communities like abbeys, where the lack of available women may lead men to seek each other out just like in a boarding school. Obviously some priests are just gay and some are not.

And of course, anyone who knows more about this or has personal experience can pop in and correct me. I just like to read about sex culture, not really much personal knowledge.
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