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Old 05-07-2014, 12:11 AM   #436
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The Gay Thread

Well in that case...

I was confused. It really didn't make much sense haha.

It was the "girlfriend" thing. Made sense at the time!
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Old 05-07-2014, 04:12 AM   #437
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That has honestly never made sense to me either.
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Old 05-07-2014, 06:07 AM   #438
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Ha! That's a strange Americanism that I find myself using sometimes although it always does sound weird. Anyway, now does that make a bit better sense now, about joining up with a bunch of guys? In the original anecdote, it sounded like the straight guy who had better luck meeting girls with gays, was talking about moving in groups of several rather than just a few.
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Old 05-07-2014, 09:02 AM   #439
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It's not a bad idea.

As a rule of thumb, your boyfriend's level of discomfort with gays is about the same level of dislike he has for women.

If he hates gay people, he probably hates women generally.
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Old 05-07-2014, 05:07 PM   #440
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It's not a bad idea.

As a rule of thumb, your boyfriend's level of discomfort with gays is about the same level of dislike he has for women.

If he hates gay people, he probably hates women generally.
I really don't think this is true. Or maybe it is true for something extreme "hate" but not for general "discomfort".

I know plenty of guys who would readily admit they are uncomfortable, for example, by watching two gay men kiss, but are absolutely respectful of women, etc.
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Old 05-07-2014, 06:36 PM   #441
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Well I definitely think tone matters most. Uncomfortable is something different than saying "it's wrong and they should feel wrong."

I think it's a very dynamic situation though. Not that black and white.
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Old 05-07-2014, 11:54 PM   #442
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I think homophobia is misogyny by another name.

Feeling uncomfortable is much different than regularly using slurs, or loudly pronouncing one's heterosexuality via disgust with homosexuality.
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Old 05-08-2014, 12:04 AM   #443
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Well yeah, I mean that's the point I was making.

Some people might be uncomfortable around foreigners just because they never seen one but if they got to know them they'd realize it wasn't so bad.

Then, some people are xenophobic and simply feel as though these people are inferior.
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Old 05-08-2014, 01:28 PM   #444
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Agreed. But Irvine you originally drew an analogy between "discomfort" with gays and women hating. Don't think discomfort is really what we're talking about.
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Old 05-08-2014, 02:26 PM   #445
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Agreed. But Irvine you originally drew an analogy between "discomfort" with gays and women hating. Don't think discomfort is really what we're talking about.


i said "level" of discomfort.
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Old 05-08-2014, 02:50 PM   #446
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Ok, no sense in nitpicking but I'd take issue with that anyway. I don't think that somebody with a say, moderate level of discomfort around gays or lesbians has a moderate level of hate on for women. Maybe others can pipe in on their experiences so I'm not basing this on my own only.
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Old 05-08-2014, 03:52 PM   #447
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I'm on anitram's side with this one. I guess one could argue semantics and say that homophobes obviously have a strong level of discomfort around gay people, or that discomfort that crosses a line from internal to external action against gays might likely have ties to the person's thoughts on women, too.

But, Irvine, you did say that the boyfriend's level of discomfort around gays is analogous to his level of discomfort around women, and I don't think that's really true. I was uncomfortable around gays until I got to college, and, though I know it's convenient for me to be the judge of my behavior back then, I don't believe it was rooted in any discomfort/antipathy/misogynistic thoughts I had towards women, but simply that I was young and had very little exposure to gays prior to college.
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Old 05-08-2014, 05:21 PM   #448
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No, he said dislike of women. The theory here is that homophobia is really fear of feminization and being feminized, ie a man's fear of being treated in the way he treats women or thinks that women are meant to be treated.

For example, many men have no problem with lesbian women (sexayy) or even getting blow jobs from guys (many straight men do) but their major sticking point with gayness is the idea of men being penetrated, either anally or orally. Often you hear "that's just gross" or wrong or sick. And I think if a man finds the idea of getting fucked abhorrent, disgusting ect, there's a pretty good chance that he (consciously or not) regards penetration as an act of dominance that some people are meant to submit to but definitely not him--that fucking is on some level an act of power and degradation.
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Old 05-08-2014, 05:51 PM   #449
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Yikes, I don't think that's fair at all. That's throwing a bunch of people like myself out of the conversation.

Homophobia is much broader than that. You think homophobic people would be down with the gay if every gay person was a Macho Man Randy Savage? For what it's worth, there's plenty of gay people who wouldn't even subscribe to feminism or those who still would treat a woman the same way your typical straight guy would.
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Old 05-08-2014, 08:07 PM   #450
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or even getting blow jobs from guys (many straight men do)

What? What exactly are you basing this on?
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