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Old 03-23-2014, 07:18 PM   #301
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Well, I think it's important to recognize that they are a church and they are in fact Baptist. One of the features of Baptism is its autonomy, which has good parts and bad. One of the bad is that anyone can use the name for any purpose. You can be kicked out of the convention but you can still call yourself a Baptist church. And it's really important to recognize that this is a church and that their craziness is expressing a real theological belief. It's important to recognize that religion can be really, truly bad: that there is such thing as bad belief. Religion can be such a powerful force for good that people can be reluctant to admit that. They want to say that its an expression of the individual person, or a perversion of the real religion, that the 'real' religion is not like that. But the fact is that these people are acting out their real beliefs about the nature of God. It's not just a perverted or unfortunate or mistaken one. It is real religion, just as sincere as all the good ones, and it is actively evil.
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Old 03-23-2014, 08:05 PM   #302
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No, it's really not important at all. They have like 20 fucking members. No one should even know they exist.
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Old 03-23-2014, 08:56 PM   #303
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Groups this small call themselves religions for the tax breaks.
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Old 03-24-2014, 06:37 AM   #304
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I don't think it is important at all. We all know religion could be bad, eh, look at the crusades, for example. Or do I even need to mention 9/11? So why should this absolutely moronic family gain any more attention than they already undeservedly have gained?

It's kinda similar idea that we face here now in my country, with our nazi-like blonde muslim hating politician. I just don't get why people keep putting him in the newspapers, tv shows, everything. By giving him attention, he'll stick around doing the same shtick every time because it works. He gets attention, people vote for him to protest the system. Yet if we'd stop paying attention to him, he'll eitehr go even more radical, showing his true colours, or we'd hear nothing at all.

Same in this case. If people would stop talking about this family, they'd have less attention. And as the writer of the piece COBL posted already said, if people would ignore them rather than let themselves be offended by these pieces of shite, they would not get their satisfaction and eventually fuck off.
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And if U2 EVER did Hawkmoon live....and the version from the Lovetown Tour, my uterus would leave my body and fling itself at Bono - for realz.
Don't worry baby, it's gonna be all right. Uncertainty can be a guiding light...
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Old 03-24-2014, 06:58 AM   #305
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Groups this small call themselves religions for the tax breaks.
Everything this lot does is calculated.
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Old 03-24-2014, 09:29 AM   #306
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I'm not saying it's important to give them attention. GG, I don't know how it is in Europe, but my experience in the US is that people tend to assume that religion is always a force for moral good, and that when it goes wrong it's due to a flaw in the practitioner rather than the belief. My feeling is that some beliefs are just bad, and if they don't always work out to their worst logical conclusion it's a case of the person being better than their religion and doing good in spite of it.
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Old 03-24-2014, 12:18 PM   #307
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I think the percentage of atheist or agnostic people is slightly larger over here than in the US. Lots of people do claim to be of certian religion but don't go to church every sunday and whatnot.

Since I study Chemistry, I don't find many believers at my study. We had one guy who was deeply religious, and he found a way to combine his beliefs and science, so that was pretty respectable.
I don't think we link morality to religion that much here, I haven't heard of it at least. I myself had a protestant upbringing, but it was never taught that religion was morally good. It was more taught that you had to do good to be good.
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And if U2 EVER did Hawkmoon live....and the version from the Lovetown Tour, my uterus would leave my body and fling itself at Bono - for realz.
Don't worry baby, it's gonna be all right. Uncertainty can be a guiding light...
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Old 03-24-2014, 12:43 PM   #308
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Around here there's a narrative that moral behavior only comes from belief in God--that all athiests and skeptics are moral relativists, and that borrowed theological strictures stripped of God are the only thing that keep non-religious people from total moral chaos. I've had this explained to me quite clearly and sincerely by Christians I grew up with, and I've also talked with people who are honestly surprised to hear that a non-religious system of ethics can exist. So often the feeling is that any religion is better than no religion, since it's the only thing that keeps us from the abyss. And people can be quite reluctant to admit that a religious teaching itself, not just a mistaken application, can be bad. Religious beliefs get a lot of free passes in the States.
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Old 03-24-2014, 12:56 PM   #309
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Hmm... maybe things are a bit different on the eastern side of the continent than the western side. I grew up on the west coast, and have never got that feeling about religion that you are describing jeevey. It feels a lot more like Gg describes.
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Old 03-24-2014, 01:11 PM   #310
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That may be true. Or it may be culturally specific to people with religious backgrounds, who tend to run in clusters and not develop close relationships outside the church--at least where I am. My husband is from the West Coast but that attitude is common with his Baptist family. But we also have that thing going where theism is kind of a prerequisite for public life like elected office, because it proves you have moral fiber. I think we have only a couple of professing atheist in our entire congressional system.
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Old 03-24-2014, 01:23 PM   #311
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Hmm... maybe things are a bit different on the eastern side of the continent than the western side. I grew up on the west coast, and have never got that feeling about religion that you are describing jeevey. It feels a lot more like Gg describes.

It really does depend on where you live. I live in Portland, OR and I've never gotten that feeling about religion here. But when I go to visit my grandparents in Ohio, you get that feeling a lot. The East and the Midwest tend to be more religious than the West.
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Old 03-24-2014, 01:25 PM   #312
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That may be true. Or it may be culturally specific to people with religious backgrounds, who tend to run in clusters and not develop close relationships outside the church--at least where I am. My husband is from the West Coast but that attitude is common with his Baptist family. But we also have that thing going where theism is kind of a prerequisite for public life like elected office, because it proves you have moral fiber. I think we have only a couple of professing atheist in our entire congressional system.
The problem might be that you seem be generalizing about a movement, i.e. Christianity, that has countless manifestations and interpretations. I've been around a lot of Mormons, for example, you will talk quite openly about "good deeds" being the mark of a person rather than a perception of closeness to god.
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Old 03-24-2014, 01:28 PM   #313
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Hmm... maybe things are a bit different on the eastern side of the continent than the western side. I grew up on the west coast, and have never got that feeling about religion that you are describing jeevey. It feels a lot more like Gg describes.

Same here. I've lived my whole life on Staten Island, part of NYC, and never had that kind of experience. Honestly, Jeevey, that was a broad generalization because the US is a large country with so much diversity and attitudes. The conservative religious attitudes in the South won't be found in many other places. So it's hard to paint the American religious experience with one brush. Where I grew up, it was mostly Catholic that leaned mainly on cultural, family traditions.
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Old 03-24-2014, 01:36 PM   #314
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What a load of nonsense, it sounds like the religious people you speak of are quite full of themselves Jeevey. As if people with another religion or no religion can't have morals... yeah, cause them christians have been so morally awesome over the centuries... morals are a human thing. So are mistakes and wars and all kinds of crap.
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And if U2 EVER did Hawkmoon live....and the version from the Lovetown Tour, my uterus would leave my body and fling itself at Bono - for realz.
Don't worry baby, it's gonna be all right. Uncertainty can be a guiding light...
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Old 03-24-2014, 01:44 PM   #315
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The above comments all seem to be the case here, I think. I have never in my life got the feeling that anyone thinks practicing a religion is a better way or something that most people should do or aspire to do. It's always just sort of felt like something some people choose to do because it helps them feel better in their lives. Just a choice made by some because they feel it benefits them. Very religious people here seem to be a minority.

This is off topic I know, but relates to this line of discussion...
My mother grew up here as well (San Diego) and was born and raised here since 1942. Her parents came here from the east coast after her father served in the military and they liked it here and decided to stay. Of a family of 2 parents and 5 kids, only one of her sisters chose to lead a religious life, and even as kids, my mom always described her family as looking at her sister as the oddball. I don't mean that negatively, only that none of her family were or felt any need to practice religion so her sister choosing it from a young age was unusual. I guess my point here is that even in the early 1940's here, religion did not play a major role in daily life. (By the way, her sister chose the Baptist religion. And Baptist have always held the most fanatical reputation when it comes to devout practice, as far as I have known in my lifetime.)
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