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Old 02-22-2014, 10:48 AM   #136
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I never really linked marriage to christianity, lol. When did that happen? I thought marriage has existed way before christianity, ie ancient Rome and Greek civilisations had marital arrangements already.
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And if U2 EVER did Hawkmoon live....and the version from the Lovetown Tour, my uterus would leave my body and fling itself at Bono - for realz.
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Old 02-22-2014, 12:14 PM   #137
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They did. And within recorded Western history it was nearly always a primarily economic transaction, involving transfer of property from one man to the other with the woman acting as a sort of collateral. Marriage as we think of it now is quite new, I think.
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Old 02-22-2014, 01:00 PM   #138
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Marriage as we think of it now is quite new, I think.

so is romantic love.
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Old 02-22-2014, 02:06 PM   #139
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True, but I don't think the bible had much on that either.
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And if U2 EVER did Hawkmoon live....and the version from the Lovetown Tour, my uterus would leave my body and fling itself at Bono - for realz.
Don't worry baby, it's gonna be all right. Uncertainty can be a guiding light...
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Old 02-22-2014, 02:10 PM   #140
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True, but I don't think the bible had much on that either.
Song of Solomon 1 ESV - The Song of Songs, which is Solomon's. - Bible Gateway

It's pretty awkward though
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Old 02-22-2014, 02:40 PM   #141
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There's quite a few love stories in the Bible.
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Old 02-22-2014, 03:13 PM   #142
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Behold, you are beautiful, my beloved, truly delightful.
Our couch is green;
17 the beams of our house are cedar;
our rafters are pine.
Awesome poetry there.


I'm not saying that the bible has nothing on love, I wouldn't dare. But it's just that our notion of Romantic love is quite different than how it was so many years ago. Those definitions have evolved, as have those of marriage and equality and so many other things.
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And if U2 EVER did Hawkmoon live....and the version from the Lovetown Tour, my uterus would leave my body and fling itself at Bono - for realz.
Don't worry baby, it's gonna be all right. Uncertainty can be a guiding light...
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Old 02-22-2014, 03:51 PM   #143
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Romantic love isn't new, but the ideal of continuing romantic love within marriage between people who will have a companionable relationship (not just a sexual, custodial and economic one) really is. There are narratives that suggest that exactly the opposite is desirable even in the present. Just think of all the different variations on the idea of a man who is pussy whipped, ie more influenced by his wife than his male peers.
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Old 02-22-2014, 04:15 PM   #144
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Awesome poetry there.


I'm not saying that the bible has nothing on love, I wouldn't dare. But it's just that our notion of Romantic love is quite different than how it was so many years ago.
Not sure that's true. Read any Latin love poetry (like Catullus) and funeral epitaphs and you'll see a great deal of romantic attachment there, much of it strikingly similar to how people act today. In any case, the idea/existence of romantic love is anything but new.
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Old 02-22-2014, 04:43 PM   #145
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Romantic love isn't new, but the ideal of continuing romantic love within marriage between people who will have a companionable relationship (not just a sexual, custodial and economic one) really is.
Ding Ding!
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Old 02-22-2014, 06:29 PM   #146
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Not sure that's true. Read any Latin love poetry (like Catullus) and funeral epitaphs and you'll see a great deal of romantic attachment there, much of it strikingly similar to how people act today. In any case, the idea/existence of romantic love is anything but new.


The idea of romance isn't new, I agree, but the idea of romance justifying and sustaining a marriage seems to be a 19th century idea.
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Old 02-22-2014, 06:41 PM   #147
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Eh, I don't know, maybe as a common practice? It's not like we don't have the great love stories of history, like Romeo and Juliet to tell us that people did desire to marry people they loved as much as 400 years ago.
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Old 02-22-2014, 08:50 PM   #148
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This little thing just popped up in my news feed. How the Mind Rationalizes Homophobia - Nathaniel Frank - The Atlantic
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Old 02-23-2014, 12:27 AM   #149
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Eh, I don't know, maybe as a common practice? It's not like we don't have the great love stories of history, like Romeo and Juliet to tell us that people did desire to marry people they loved as much as 400 years ago.
Well, most of the historical accounts of marriage we have are either from the elites or couched in legal terms. If we were to judge marriage in this culture from the language of pre-nups and divorce settlements, or from Kim & Kanye style marriages, we'd likely conclude there is little romantic attachment/companionship here, either.
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Old 02-23-2014, 12:46 AM   #150
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Well, most of the historical accounts of marriage we have are either from the elites or couched in legal terms. If we were to judge marriage in this culture from the language of pre-nups and divorce settlements, or from Kim & Kanye style marriages, we'd likely conclude there is little romantic attachment/companionship here, either.

Or sacredness.
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