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View Poll Results: Who will you vote for?
Sen. Hilary R. Clinton 16 20.25%
Sen. Barack Obama 51 64.56%
Former Sen. John Edwards 6 7.59%
Gov. Bill Richardson 0 0%
Rep. Dennis Kucinich 6 7.59%
Former Congressman Mike Gravel 0 0%
Other (Indicate Choice via Post) 0 0%
Voters: 79. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
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Old 01-08-2008, 03:29 PM   #31
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Originally posted by martha


The banana would have had a better chance because the whack-jobs on the right wouldn't have been able to smear its Vietnam record.
Good one!!
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Old 01-09-2008, 03:35 PM   #32
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*lurker popping in alert*

Well, it now seems as if the nightmare I predicted has come to pass, and the Democrats are finished. I saw this nightmare coming way back in April, and it is playing out EXACTLY as I feared.

Back in April, following the race as it was taking shape, my nightmare was a Democratic race dominated by Hillary and Obama, because of the raw un-electability of both. Whatever else they were, they are a woman and a black. And I don't care if they were Jackie Kennedy and Martin Luther King (or Mandela for that matter), no matter who or what they were, they would be unelectable, for that very reason. Don't kid yourself about such foolish notions as "progress" or "civilized behavior." Even if every Democrat in America went out and voted for a Hill/Barack ticket, the other half of the country would be solidly lined up against. You've lost not only the South, but many voters in the North as well. Up here in New York State, we're one of the most racist states in the country. The Klan was quite active in my Albany-area neighborhood right up until the 40's (I've got the pics to prove it.) And New York schools continue to be some of the most segregated in the nation. Busing,it seems, never happened here.
(FYI, I tried to figure out why, and a local novelist answered the question for me: the Dutch-contolled island of Manhattan was the site of America's first slave rebellion, in 1640-something; the 19 ringleaders were hunted down, captured, tortured almost to death in the public square, and then burned alive. A lasting legacy.)

Unlike 1992, the Clinton machine is not indestructable, because of the corporate takeover of the media, because of non-stop brainwashing going on about her health care plan, her personality etc, (after 365 days of sourpussy, bitchy -looking Hill pics on the front page, the image will burn into you, soma-like)and b/c of Bill, the Clintons are now forever tainted in the eyes of many in his own party. Above all, b/c of the ongoing mechanations of Karl Rove, who is currently delighting in his handiwork; it is succeeding spectacularily, and according to plan.

As for Obama, as someone has said, you type in the search engine and it gives you "Osama". Enough said.

I concluded that between the corporatization of the media and the design of Roger Ailes, Rupert Murdoch and Karl Rove (not to mention O'Rielly, Novak and a host of others), whoever the Dem nom is would be subject to a 24/8 torrent of smear, the propaganda machine would run overtime; but if Obama was in the race, Rove would play one against the other, with the goal of trashing Hillary so thoroughly that by the time the nomination process came around, she'd be dead in the water, with no realistic alternative to step up to the plate. Screwed before the REAL campaign even begun.

(and many would fail to see that many sensible people wouldn't vote for Hillary unless it was a choice between, say, her and Guliani...simply b/c we feel the Party needs fresh new blood. But today, only Princes run...its all aobut how much money you have. I doubt Carter would have won either, with these bastards pulling the levers. And heck, they don't even need curtains.)

I wrote a long letter to the chairman of the DNC, I was going to
actually send a letter and not just email, spelling out the reasons WHY both Clinton and Obama MUST be taken off the bill IMMEDIATELY, before the media circus began. If the Democrats were running a platform of all white men with WASP names, (like Edwards?) they'd be that much harder to attack. This should have been an absolute no-brainer. I said that for the reasons above, the Clinton machine was NOT indestructable and therefore in the end it was not to be feared. I said that they had to have the guts to take these extremely unpleasant and painful but necessary tasks. The Republicans practice such triage every campaign, though they'd find it harder to if they were the ones with this dilemma.`

Hillary came to town in May. I took the day off and getting there early, I stayed down among the crowd at the Governor's Mansion, intending to give my letter to an aide of Governor Spitzer. But at the last moment I chickened out--the last thing I needed was to be arrested for a "terrorist" incident. (Anthrax anyone?) You can see what the climate has done to me. I despise myself for it.

Not that my letter would have made one iota of difference whatsoever, even if the DNC chairman had read it. But at least I would have felt better, knowing that someone out there has spotted the danger signs.

Now there are no solutions, and we are officially screwed.
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Old 01-09-2008, 05:43 PM   #33
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And your solution puts a huge amount of power in the hands of a small, dangerous group.
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Old 01-09-2008, 05:46 PM   #34
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I completely disagree that Obama is unelectable. I think Hillary may be at this point because she, more than any other Democratic candidate, unites the Republicans against her. It would be a long, tough struggle, especially against McCain if he ends up getting the Republican nod

I have (thankfully, and almost amazingly) yet to see any indication that Obama's ethnicity has negatively affected him. I honestly expected to see lots more rumors and press coverage on the whole "are we ready for a black president?" but it seems to be quite minimal - perhaps this country really is progressing (one can hope...). I think one of the big reasons we haven't seen any kind of smearing of Obama based on his race is because his message of hope and change actually does resonate with the voters of all stripes - and it's been a long time since we've had a major candidate really try and drill that message home. The last election was all about fear, protecting us from evildoers and making the right choice or else. Obama's not going that route and I think that is incredibly alluring to a lot of people. Even those who wouldn't vote for him I think at least respect him for that. Or perhaps the opposition is saving the really insidious tactics for later on.

Though it is a sad commentary on our society and its lingering sexist attitudes that "are we ready for a woman president?" seems to pop up every other day in covering Hillary.
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Old 01-09-2008, 06:11 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by Diemen

Though it is a sad commentary on our society and its lingering sexist attitudes that "are we ready for a woman president?" seems to pop up every other day in covering Hillary.
I've hardly heard that question asked in the media at all

It's not the possibility of having a woman as president that is bothersome to some people, it's the question of if we want Hillary as the president that frightens me. It's not a "woman" issue as much as it is a "Hillary" issue.
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Old 01-09-2008, 06:43 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by 2861U2

It's not a "woman" issue as much as it is a "Hillary" issue.
So how much is it a woman issue?
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Old 01-09-2008, 06:46 PM   #37
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So how much is it a woman issue?
Ok, so I should have stated that better.

The fact that a candidate is a woman is completely irrelevant to me. If Hillary ends up not winning the nomination or the general election, I know the media is going to talk about how America apparently isn't ready for a woman president, and I don't think its that at all. It's just that we don't want Hillary as that woman.
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Old 01-09-2008, 07:21 PM   #38
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It's just that we don't want Hillary as that woman.
Have you missed some of the posts in this very forum which seem to indicate that sexism is a very real problem that Hillary is facing?
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Old 01-09-2008, 07:22 PM   #39
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Thanks for the part two thread. I changed my vote from the part one thread, and it reflects what I will do in the Democratic primary.
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Old 01-09-2008, 11:03 PM   #40
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Oh, but we are not getting any of the really negative or REALLY sexist or racist stuff yet. We're just starting to see tiny little bits of it.This is just the tip of the iceberg; Rove is pulling his levers very carefully.

The current tide of feel-good-ism/lack of racism in regard to Obama is only happening because everybody knows that no political party in their right mind would have a black man on their ticket. In the end, Obama will NOT be on the bill; he is a "fantasy" candidate, and therefore we can be nice to him. The avalanche of gushing press is purely to produce a Howard Dean/Kerry kind of phenomenon, so that when the Dems strike Obama from the ticket, so many Dems will outraged that rather than reluctantly vote for Hillary to prevent someone like Guliani from taking office, they'll stay home. And I have a feeling that Guliani, the little proto-fascist, is the real Bush-anointed choice, and if he is still having difficulties come summer, some Huge Incident will be engineered that'll make his program of fear-mongering more palatable to voters in both parties. Polls be damned.

But you watch. The closer we get to July, the more it'll be ratcheted up a notch, whoever is the Dem candidate.

And BTW, I am NOT sexist, if you're implying that I'm one of those who are......I for one am not affected by the sourpussy pics of Hill I mentioned. I'm simply implying that there are many who are, I read the responses. on other sites, many of which are laughable. Me, I don't even watch TV, it's all propaganda. I don't care what someone looks like, or what their personality is. It's all to do with their policies, and their motives. I read books....

My problem with Hillary right now is the same I have with Congress and that of just about every politican.They aren't even making a symbolic stand for what is right, but caving in on every corner to Bush's petty little blackmail. And Cheney's threats. They have the courage of molasses. What then will they be like when they get in office? So what if everything they try to do is vetoed? It's the FIGHT that counts. It's called balls, gumption, whatever. It's spitting in the face of Fate. To some of us, the Will to Fight is even more important than the result. It's part of your attitude on life. And politically, she has absolutely nothing to lose. What is this, The Godfather? Did Cheney call her up and say :"Either your brains or your signature will on the contract?" If I knew that, I'd understand. But until I do, I despise everyone for their laughable weakness. They're all sucking on the same Teat of Corrupt Largesse.

And BTW, the Dems are taking a much more dangerous gamble helping America down the road to tyranny and darkness, refusing to try to get these people prosecuted, thinking that the people will be so outraged they'll give carte blanche to whoever the Dem candidate is, simply b/c they're from the Opposing Party and this automatically makes them better than the ReThugs. Bull. Some of us voted last November b/c we DID want even symbolic action, for the very reason that a 2 more yrs was too long to wait to save this country from becoming a Police State, and sending a message that evildoers can get away with it and go scot free. 2 yrs would be all it took. Generations to come will be paying a price for this Congress's fear, even more than Bush's tyranny. No Dem President will be able to save us after '08--the civic rot will have gone in too deep, like gangrene in the Body Politic. We had our chance, and we blew it.

As for leaving pwer in the hands of a few, that always happens every July, when the Parties choose who their candidate is.
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Old 01-10-2008, 02:17 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally posted by Teta040
Oh, but we are not getting any of the really negative or REALLY sexist or racist stuff yet. We're just starting to see tiny little bits of it.This is just the tip of the iceberg; Rove is pulling his levers very carefully.

The current tide of feel-good-ism/lack of racism in regard to Obama is only happening because everybody knows that no political party in their right mind would have a black man on their ticket. In the end, Obama will NOT be on the bill; he is a "fantasy" candidate, and therefore we can be nice to him. The avalanche of gushing press is purely to produce a Howard Dean/Kerry kind of phenomenon, so that when the Dems strike Obama from the ticket, so many Dems will outraged that rather than reluctantly vote for Hillary to prevent someone like Guliani from taking office, they'll stay home. And I have a feeling that Guliani, the little proto-fascist, is the real Bush-anointed choice, and if he is still having difficulties come summer, some Huge Incident will be engineered that'll make his program of fear-mongering more palatable to voters in both parties. Polls be damned.

But you watch. The closer we get to July, the more it'll be ratcheted up a notch, whoever is the Dem candidate.

And BTW, I am NOT sexist, if you're implying that I'm one of those who are......I for one am not affected by the sourpussy pics of Hill I mentioned. I'm simply implying that there are many who are, I read the responses. on other sites, many of which are laughable. Me, I don't even watch TV, it's all propaganda. I don't care what someone looks like, or what their personality is. It's all to do with their policies, and their motives. I read books....

My problem with Hillary right now is the same I have with Congress and that of just about every politican.They aren't even making a symbolic stand for what is right, but caving in on every corner to Bush's petty little blackmail. And Cheney's threats. They have the courage of molasses. What then will they be like when they get in office? So what if everything they try to do is vetoed? It's the FIGHT that counts. It's called balls, gumption, whatever. It's spitting in the face of Fate. To some of us, the Will to Fight is even more important than the result. It's part of your attitude on life. And politically, she has absolutely nothing to lose. What is this, The Godfather? Did Cheney call her up and say :"Either your brains or your signature will on the contract?" If I knew that, I'd understand. But until I do, I despise everyone for their laughable weakness. They're all sucking on the same Teat of Corrupt Largesse.

And BTW, the Dems are taking a much more dangerous gamble helping America down the road to tyranny and darkness, refusing to try to get these people prosecuted, thinking that the people will be so outraged they'll give carte blanche to whoever the Dem candidate is, simply b/c they're from the Opposing Party and this automatically makes them better than the ReThugs. Bull. Some of us voted last November b/c we DID want even symbolic action, for the very reason that a 2 more yrs was too long to wait to save this country from becoming a Police State, and sending a message that evildoers can get away with it and go scot free. 2 yrs would be all it took. Generations to come will be paying a price for this Congress's fear, even more than Bush's tyranny. No Dem President will be able to save us after '08--the civic rot will have gone in too deep, like gangrene in the Body Politic. We had our chance, and we blew it.

As for leaving pwer in the hands of a few, that always happens every July, when the Parties choose who their candidate is.
This is the most frighteningly jaded, cynical, and hopeless post I've ever read on Interference.
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Old 01-10-2008, 07:26 AM   #42
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namKcur, if it comes across to you as cynical, than I wish more people shared my concern...uh, cynicism, as you call it. Everyone seems to be plodding along, thinking the ground has not shifted beneath their feet, and that we are still playing by the same rules.

WE ARE NOT.

I'll bet most of you have forgotten about Karl Rove's not yet abandoned attempt to divide the Electoral Votes in California, he wants 20% of them to be counted by county....

Forgive me. But I lost my faith for good 4 yrs ago, when Bush stole the election a 2nd time, only one Senator dared to call for an investigation, the media quashed all popular outcry with the pronouncement "Generations from now, history books will record that George W Bush was re-elected" and 2 yrs later, Bobby Kennedy Jr was the ONLY ONE who bothered to go out and do the field research among the poor black voters,that has proved this statement wrong, for all time. I see some of you use the phrase "elected " or "re-elected" all the time.

And when I think of what has happened in the world and in this country due to those misplaced 300,000 votes....

I am going to print out my statement, save it, and next November, when Rudy Guliani is "elected" by a sizeable margin, or whoever the Repub candidate is, but I have a feeling it'll be him), I will come back here and reprint it when you are all moaning and groaning yet again. My post may look poisonous now, but God forbid that in November it proves prophetic.

I am sick and tired of seeing my political predictions come true over the past 7 yrs. I'm not saying I know everything, of course I don't, but my uncle might. Or at least what counts. I used tot hink he ewas crazy but EVERYTHING he has told me over the past 7 yrs has come true,....

I am not jaded. If I were, I would not care so much. A jaded person is someone who is so cynical they don't even bother to pay attention. I try to hope.

And BTW, you can treat me with a bit more respect I used to post in here often. But I am on another site posting more often these days.....lurking in here though a few mins each day.
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Old 01-10-2008, 08:46 PM   #43
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And your solution puts a huge amount of power in the hands of a small, dangerous group.
This still applies.

You want John Edwards to be the candidate because you're afraid.

That's not how change happens.
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Old 01-10-2008, 11:45 PM   #44
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This still applies.

You want John Edwards to be the candidate because you're afraid.

That's not how change happens.
Who are you talking to?
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Old 01-11-2008, 03:00 AM   #45
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Quote:
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I'll bet most of you have forgotten about Karl Rove's not yet abandoned attempt to divide the Electoral Votes in California, he wants 20% of them to be counted by county....

Colorado tried this in 2004 and it failed in the vote.
North Carolina tried this in 2007.
It was the Democrats who tried to do it then. Both times.

I guess Karl Rove just can't control himself.

Seriously though, this power-hungry "win at all costs" mentality runs both ways. They all want the control.
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