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Old 01-03-2007, 12:33 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by redhotswami
I only started lurking and 04, so I'm fresh meat. However, in reference to this


back on campus i was the loudmouth who was saying all this was crap. bush really had a lot of people fooled back then. i'm glad people are changing their minds.
I do remember being against the war, and being in a distinct minority. I was pretty much with Martha, re: civil war & Vietnam parallels.

But I'm a n00b here in FYM, so I could be lying heh.
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Old 01-03-2007, 12:35 PM   #17
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Always thought the war was a dumb idea and Bush was unfit to lead anyone into battle (or anywhere else for that matter). And I said it repeatedly and often back then, so nothing has changed.
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Old 01-03-2007, 12:38 PM   #18
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Well at least we are seeing the alternative to war in Iraq being played out with Iran right now; the mulilateral course of action that so many say should have been played out with Iraq yields interesting results.
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Old 01-03-2007, 12:47 PM   #19
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Actually I just thought of something that I changed my mind on since 2003. Back then I thought GWB was the worst president of my lifetime. Now I'm certain he's the worst ever.
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Old 01-03-2007, 01:57 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
Damn you FYM archive.
damn
you
all
to
hell


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Old 01-03-2007, 07:00 PM   #21
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Angela Harlem -- is your sig line guy sticking his tongue out? Or does he just have pouty lips...and pretty earrings?
Nah, Mr Roos is experimenting with being a woman in this sig pic. His lips are attempting pouty, and the earring is a pink heart (which is impossible to see as MSPaint shrinks pics upon saving).
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Old 01-03-2007, 07:37 PM   #22
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Back in 2000 (not on here obviously) during the campaign I was telling people if Bush got elected the environment would go to hell and we'd go to war in Iraq.
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Old 01-03-2007, 08:24 PM   #23
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Re: The FYM Archive is an interesting place.

Quote:
Originally posted by martha

Go spend some time rereading what you posted back in March 2003 and before. Do you still feel the same way?
In looking through the threads I found areas in which I still agree today.

There should have been an honest to goodness Declaration of War.

There should have been an attempt to build a true coalition, including arab nations.

I still believe that Iraq had to be dealt with due to the fact that I believe we were being attacked since the first attempt on the World Trade Center because of our presence in Saudi Arabia. I do not believe that 9/11 was the start of it, but a successful attempt to harm our country. Was Iraq responsible for 9/11? Not directly, but our foregin policy, influenced by Iraq in my opinion did cause it.

While I detest the UN's handling of the food for oil program that was to help the Iraqi people, I was apparently wrong in my belief that sanctions were working to some extent.

I do not recall ever saying the war would be easy. I do not believe it is like Vietnam, however....time could prove me wrong.

I was wrong about the administration. PERIOD. Not one book I have read since 9/11 has lead me to believe that this administration has operated without seeking to go to war. This makes me angry. It makes me angry because I have faith that the American people, if presented a sound case for war, would have supported this administration. Instead we have CIA officers, State Department officers, and Military officers being bullied, threatened, fired, forced to resign ect.... It makes me sick that I believed they would not do such things.

I am not sure who else remains in the forum that will respond to your query Martha. I responded honestly, no devil's advocate.
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Old 01-03-2007, 09:34 PM   #24
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I've been posting in FYM since February of 2003, and I see that I haven't changed my opinion on Iraq one bit.
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Old 01-03-2007, 09:48 PM   #25
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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


I agree with this.

However, I have also changed my opinion in some other areas.

Back then, someone asked me how I would feel if the Iraqi people voted for a non democratic government. At that time, I said that would be their business.

Man, have I changed my mind on that. The Iraqi people voted for Sharia law, and that burns my butt. Our soldiers and the soldiers of our allies died so that the Iraqis could adopt Sharia law? AARGH.

Don't get me wrong; I am glad that the monster and his equally monstrous sons are dead and can no longer torture and maim and kill their own people, but sometimes I almost wish we could leave right now and say "to heck with it all; sort it out your own way". But I know that leaving now would cause even more problems than what we're seeing now. The instability would be mind boggling, and I fear Iraq would fall to the head-choppin', car-bombin' terrorists.

But Sharia law? AARGH.
80's I appreciate your transparency here and understand your frustration. But--and forgive me if I sould more uppity here than I mean to, but--I read things like this and wonder what else folks expected freedom to look like?

What is it that some seem to have believed/believe that freedom means folks will choose what we've chosen?
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Old 01-03-2007, 10:23 PM   #26
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I had a big gap between postings from 2002 and 2004. But I do recall after the tie being announced back in 1999 that if Bush wins, we're -ed.

I didn't trust the words coming out of the administration whether it was Colin Powell or Dick Cheney. What threw me off was why they seemed so desperate in trying to convince people that going to war was necessary. I would like to think going to war would be fairly self-evident and obvious to everyone. Also, I read this report

http://www.newamericancentury.org/Re...asDefenses.pdf

by The Project for the New American Century which made me totally skeptical of the whole war on Iraq. I remember arguing with a guy I used to give a ride to work about the impending war. I even said I doubt there are any WMDs. I even printed out the whole bloody PNAC report to let him read it. We argued for a long time about the war. We are still friends though.

I haven't changed my opinion except increase my negative feelings towards George W. Bush for pretty much every policy position he has taken during his presidency.
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Old 01-03-2007, 10:46 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sherry Darling


What is it that some seem to have believed/believe that freedom means folks will choose what we've chosen?

I never got that either
if it was really going to be a democracy

then the Shia would have the power
and that would strengthen Iran's position
and Iran was part of the Axis of Evil?

I think the neoCons were stupid enough to think they could just throw some bricks of 100 dollar bills at some tribal chiefs
and install some figurehead of Chenney's choosing

not a democracy at all
but it appeared to work in Afghanistan for awhile, at least
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Old 01-03-2007, 10:54 PM   #28
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Re: Re: The FYM Archive is an interesting place.

Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox


In looking through the threads I found areas in which I still agree today.

There should have been an honest to goodness Declaration of War.

There should have been an attempt to build a true coalition, including arab nations.

I still believe that Iraq had to be dealt with due to the fact that I believe we were being attacked since the first attempt on the World Trade Center because of our presence in Saudi Arabia. I do not believe that 9/11 was the start of it, but a successful attempt to harm our country. Was Iraq responsible for 9/11? Not directly, but our foregin policy, influenced by Iraq in my opinion did cause it.

While I detest the UN's handling of the food for oil program that was to help the Iraqi people, I was apparently wrong in my belief that sanctions were working to some extent.

I do not recall ever saying the war would be easy. I do not believe it is like Vietnam, however....time could prove me wrong.

I was wrong about the administration. PERIOD. Not one book I have read since 9/11 has lead me to believe that this administration has operated without seeking to go to war. This makes me angry. It makes me angry because I have faith that the American people, if presented a sound case for war, would have supported this administration. Instead we have CIA officers, State Department officers, and Military officers being bullied, threatened, fired, forced to resign ect.... It makes me sick that I believed they would not do such things.

I am not sure who else remains in the forum that will respond to your query Martha. I responded honestly, no devil's advocate.


did you not read the text of Resolution 1441?
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Old 01-04-2007, 12:41 AM   #29
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And when I remember the whole discussion about WMD. Including the presentation of pictures! Evidence!

Incredible how governments propaganda can fool brave (nonetheless stupid, or shall we say, naive?) democratic hearts.

Anyway, if more Americans would have been against the war from the beginning, I doubt it would have changed anything. Look at Europe. 100,000 people on the streets in London, but Tony went with George, hah!

If you don´t realize the democracy we live in is a fake..

To quote one of my favorite artists:
We gotta vote for love, vote for love
and not the killing that´s around us
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Old 01-04-2007, 06:45 AM   #30
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Re: Re: Re: The FYM Archive is an interesting place.

Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511




did you not read the text of Resolution 1441?
That was one of those Devil's Advocte moments for me....Played both sides of that issue.

I do not believe 1441 gave the US the right to do what it did.
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