The Future American Police State - Page 5 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 11-14-2002, 12:23 AM   #61
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,501
Local Time: 08:34 PM
george lucas is right - pay attention - it is out of control

OUTRAGE GROWS OVER PENTAGON PLAN: SUPER DATABASE WILL TRACK CITIZENS

November 14, 2002
You Are a Suspect
By WILLIAM SAFIRE




WASHINGTON ó If the Homeland Security Act is not amended before passage, here is what will happen to you:
Every purchase you make with a credit card, every magazine subscription you buy and medical prescription you fill, every Web site you visit and e-mail you send or receive, every academic grade you receive, every bank deposit you make, every trip you book and every event you attend ó all these transactions and communications will go into what the Defense Department describes as "a virtual, centralized grand database."
To this computerized dossier on your private life from commercial sources, add every piece of information that government has about you ó passport application, driver's license and bridge toll records, judicial and divorce records, complaints from nosy neighbors to the F.B.I., your lifetime paper trail plus the latest hidden camera surveillance ó and you have the supersnoop's dream: a "Total Information Awareness" about every U.S. citizen.
This is not some far-out Orwellian scenario. It is what will happen to your personal freedom in the next few weeks if John Poindexter gets the unprecedented power he seeks.
Remember Poindexter? Brilliant man, first in his class at the Naval Academy, later earned a doctorate in physics, rose to national security adviser under President Ronald Reagan. He had this brilliant idea of secretly selling missiles to Iran to pay ransom for hostages, and with the illicit proceeds to illegally support contras in Nicaragua.
A jury convicted Poindexter in 1990 on five felony counts of misleading Congress and making false statements, but an appeals court overturned the verdict because Congress had given him immunity for his testimony. He famously asserted, "The buck stops here," arguing that the White House staff, and not the president, was responsible for fateful decisions that might prove embarrassing.
This ring-knocking master of deceit is back again with a plan even more scandalous than Iran-contra. He heads the "Information Awareness Office" in the otherwise excellent Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency, which spawned the Internet and stealth aircraft technology. Poindexter is now realizing his 20-year dream: getting the "data-mining" power to snoop on every public and private act of every American.
Even the hastily passed U.S.A. Patriot Act, which widened the scope of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act and weakened 15 privacy laws, raised requirements for the government to report secret eavesdropping to Congress and the courts. But Poindexter's assault on individual privacy rides roughshod over such oversight.
He is determined to break down the wall between commercial snooping and secret government intrusion. The disgraced admiral dismisses such necessary differentiation as bureaucratic "stovepiping." And he has been given a $200 million budget to create computer dossiers on 300 million Americans.
When George W. Bush was running for president, he stood foursquare in defense of each person's medical, financial and communications privacy. But Poindexter, whose contempt for the restraints of oversight drew the Reagan administration into its most serious blunder, is still operating on the presumption that on such a sweeping theft of privacy rights, the buck ends with him and not with the president.
This time, however, he has been seizing power in the open. In the past week John Markoff of The Times, followed by Robert O'Harrow of The Washington Post, have revealed the extent of Poindexter's operation, but editorialists have not grasped its undermining of the Freedom of Information Act.
Political awareness can overcome "Total Information Awareness," the combined force of commercial and government snooping. In a similar overreach, Attorney General Ashcroft tried his Terrorism Information and Prevention System (TIPS), but public outrage at the use of gossips and postal workers as snoops caused the House to shoot it down. The Senate should now do the same to this other exploitation of fear.
The Latin motto over Poindexter"s new Pentagon office reads "Scientia Est Potentia" ó "knowledge is power." Exactly: the government's infinite knowledge about you is its power over you. "We're just as concerned as the next person with protecting privacy," this brilliant mind blandly assured The Post. A jury found he spoke falsely before.
__________________

__________________
deep is offline  
Old 11-14-2002, 02:20 PM   #62
War Child
 
Sparkysgrrrl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: under the table and screaming
Posts: 754
Local Time: 08:34 PM
Not everyone that's against the war, and stiffling of rights is white. There are plenty of other ppl who are pissed off about this situation too.
And it is one of the beautiful things us humans can do, using humour to get thru tough situations. It eases the pain, and makes things easier to get thru. I can't even talk about any political things in public with my brown-skinned friends because ppl start to whisper and stare....which they already do when we go somewhere in the first place.
Once, my friends shoe came untied and I told him he better hurry up and tie it before someone thinks its a bomb wire and we laughed, and others gasped. It may not be funny to everyone, but it's our way of getting thru an otherwise unpleasent day of stares and pointing.
__________________

__________________
Sparkysgrrrl is offline  
Old 11-14-2002, 05:54 PM   #63
Acrobat
 
Not George Lucas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: South Bend, IN USA
Posts: 399
Local Time: 04:34 AM
It still amazes me how people who don't know me feel qualified to catagorize me into their little boxes. The personal attacks don't change any of the facts about the issue.

While I realize and appreciate the limits of speech in cases of yelling "fire" in a theater, those are different from, say, keeping step-by-step instructions for how to make a dirty bomb on my computer or, God forbid, joking about 9-11.

As I'm sure you're all aware (read: none of you are aware), I tend to be a very opinionated person with an odd sense of humor. I'm cynical, jaded, pessimistic, and hateful. (I do have my good qualities, too.) While I'm not demanding your respect for me, since I don't really care how you feel about me, I do demand your respect for my right to be such a horrible person. I have never caused physical harm to anyone (except maybe my little brother when I was, like, ten), not have I encouraged it.

I believe it is the right of any living creature to express him/her/itself as it/she/he sees fit. I love my civil liberties. I love that I can learn how to build a nuclear reactor and blow it up. I love that I can wear a thong that says, "I'm an angry black man" on it if I choose. I love having all kinds of information, opinions, and beliefs available to me. I love being able to express myself. With the way the government is now, I fear that these things will be taken away from me, and I'll be forced to live in misery, not being able to say or do what I want, to do the things that make me who I am.

That said, I think it's time to brighten the thread with kittens.


__________________
Not George Lucas is offline  
Old 11-14-2002, 06:05 PM   #64
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,501
Local Time: 08:34 PM
Alright, maybe you can learn how a reactor is built on the web.
Just don't try to acquire the materials to do it.

There are books published on explosives, many believe they should be illegal, it has been adjudicated and these books are legal. Many believe knowing how to do something will lead to it being done. This is not true, most information has not been banned in this country before, it is sad that it seems to be going that way. Hate takes more from you than it gives. Please donít hate members of our internet community.
__________________
deep is offline  
Old 11-14-2002, 06:12 PM   #65
Acrobat
 
Not George Lucas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: South Bend, IN USA
Posts: 399
Local Time: 04:34 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by deep
Hate takes more from you than it gives. Please donít hate members of our internet community.
But it's soo much fun!

Tonight I'm gonna spend a few hours brooding in my hate. Then I'm gonna build a dirty bomb and blow up random people. After that I think I'll smoke some crack and listen to Marilyn Manson while laughing at Schindler's List.
__________________
Not George Lucas is offline  
Old 11-14-2002, 07:03 PM   #66
ONE
love, blood, life
 
melon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 11,781
Local Time: 11:34 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by boywonder
I'd don't care if you don't like my bringing up the founding fathers. You abuse the constitution and our history for your amusement. Spare us your stupidity.
I love the Founding Fathers. Mostly a bunch of classical liberal intellectuals and agnostic deists / unitarians. But I'm guessing you get your history lessons from the revisionist "Christian" texts of the 19th century that raised our Founding Fathers to their current cult status. Remember the whole "cherry tree" myth about George Washington? It came from the same book that gave us the myth that he was a devout Christian.

No. Spare us your stupidity. Read a fucking book sometime.

Melon
__________________
melon is offline  
Old 11-14-2002, 07:15 PM   #67
Offishul Kitteh Doctor
Forum Moderator
 
bonosloveslave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Taking care of kitties
Posts: 9,655
Local Time: 11:34 PM
Normal

Quote:
Originally posted by Not George Lucas




I love baby kitties!!

Hi boys



________
why do ya'll gots to be so mean?


"I'd like to teach the world to sing, in perfect harmoneeeeeee........"
__________________
bonosloveslave [at] interference.com
bonosloveslave is offline  
Old 11-14-2002, 07:42 PM   #68
Blue Crack Addict
 
meegannie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Norwich, England
Posts: 15,798
Local Time: 04:34 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Not George Lucas
I have never caused physical harm to anyone (except maybe my little brother when I was, like, ten), not have I encouraged it.

Nuh-uh!! You told me I should kick someone!!
__________________
meegannie is offline  
Old 11-14-2002, 08:01 PM   #69
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,501
Local Time: 08:34 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Sparkysgrrrl
Not everyone that's against the war, and stiffling of rights is white. There are plenty of other ppl who are pissed off about this situation too.
And it is one of the beautiful things us humans can do, using humour to get thru tough situations. It eases the pain, and makes things easier to get thru. I can't even talk about any political things in public with my brown-skinned friends because ppl start to whisper and stare....which they already do when we go somewhere in the first place.
Once, my friends shoe came untied and I told him he better hurry up and tie it before someone thinks its a bomb wire and we laughed, and others gasped. It may not be funny to everyone, but it's our way of getting thru an otherwise unpleasent day of stares and pointing.

I am sorry this is happening to you.

Every now and then, I hear someone say, "Whatís the big deal, I haven't loss any rights, everything is fine by me."

I feel like smacking them and saying, "You are not the arbiter of rights abridged." What if every 1000th person was executed, would you say everything is fine, nothing happened to me.
__________________
deep is offline  
Old 11-14-2002, 09:00 PM   #70
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Tempe, Az USA
Posts: 12,856
Local Time: 09:34 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Not George Lucas


After that I think I'll smoke some crack and listen to Marilyn Manson while laughing at Schindler's List.
NGL-

Now THAT was funny.

Mean and sarcastically coldhearted BUT FUNNY

DB9
__________________
diamond is offline  
Old 11-14-2002, 10:32 PM   #71
Acrobat
 
Not George Lucas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: South Bend, IN USA
Posts: 399
Local Time: 04:34 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by meegannie


Nuh-uh!! You told me I should kick someone!!
Oh yeah. Ignore that. Um. I mean. What in the world could that be??? =>

*Runs outside, starts car and drives away*


Quote:
Originally posted by diamond

NGL-

Now THAT was funny.

Mean and sarcastically coldhearted BUT FUNNY
Thank you!
__________________
Not George Lucas is offline  
Old 11-15-2002, 12:36 AM   #72
The Fly
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 36
Local Time: 04:34 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by melon


I love the Founding Fathers. Mostly a bunch of classical liberal intellectuals and agnostic deists / unitarians. But I'm guessing you get your history lessons from the revisionist "Christian" texts of the 19th century that raised our Founding Fathers to their current cult status. Remember the whole "cherry tree" myth about George Washington? It came from the same book that gave us the myth that he was a devout Christian.

No. Spare us your stupidity. Read a fucking book sometime.

Melon
I'm sorry you think that anyone who disagrees with you is blinded by "revisionist" Christianity. I'm not even a Christian, but you're a Catholic. How does it feel to sit in church? Do you sit their thinking about all the ways you can criticize and hate Christians? Who the hell brought up anything about a cherry tree? You seem to be good at diverting our attention from the point I was trying to make to points nobody was trying to make.

There is nothing I hate more when people start to evoke the "Founding Fathers."

Yeah, you love the founding fathers. I guess you figure you're an authority on what they stood for. You even quote them in your signature and then tell the rest of us not to talk about them. Let us bask in the light of melon's glory! (read: what an arrogant prick!)
__________________
boywonder is offline  
Old 11-15-2002, 01:09 AM   #73
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
U2Bama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Gulf Coast State of Mine
Posts: 3,405
Local Time: 10:34 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by melon


I love the Founding Fathers. Mostly a bunch of classical liberal intellectuals and agnostic deists / unitarians.
Ummmm, Melon, don't forget that they were slave owners too.

~U2Alabama
__________________
U2Bama is offline  
Old 11-15-2002, 02:11 AM   #74
Jesus Online
 
Angela Harlem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: a glass castle
Posts: 30,163
Local Time: 03:34 PM
Geez I'm glad you fella's have thick skin.
!


Why is it more important to retain all this freedom than to search for and monitor those in society who can cause great harm? Is your right to research bombs, laugh at Schindler's List and hold miscellaneous illegal activity you may or may not have on your HD more important than safety? Unless you ARE a terrorist, or a person with links to terrorist and 'other' organisations, you dont have a lot to fear. Someone in here claimed those who hold security over freedom deserve neither. I think security is a helluva lot more important issue than someone's personal porn collection and their favourites folder with all their links on 'how to' with bombs etc.
__________________
<a href=http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v196/angelaharlem/thPaul_Roos28.jpg target=_blank>http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...aul_Roos28.jpg</a>
Angela Harlem is offline  
Old 11-15-2002, 03:18 AM   #75
The Fly
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 36
Local Time: 04:34 AM
That quote was a famous quote by Benjamin Franklin. It was quoted as:
"Those who would give up freedom for security is deserving of neither."

The actual quote is:
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759.

The government already has access to all of the information that they want to organize in this huge database. Why would you guys think this stuff has been hidden from the government?

Why don't liberals use that Franklin quote when they argue against gun control? After all, you're arguing that we should bypass the second amendment in the name of safety, right?

I agree that we should weary of the government and cautious. I don't think they should be able to hold terrorism suspects indefinitely without representation, but I'm not sure that a centralized database of information that is already available to them is scary for me. I haven't done anything wrong, what do I have to fear? <---- haha, I know you guys will have a field day with that last line.

If another terrorist attack happens on this country, I don't want to hear a damn liberal whining that our CIA or FBI didn't do their job. You don't want them to have the tools to do their job. When John Woolsey quit the CIA in disgust in 1995 and John Deutch took his place, the CIA was ordered by the Clinton whitehouse to rid themselves of anyone with a criminal background. This is like investigating the mafia without using mafia informants (thanks Clinton!). I don't want my CIA to be savory! You guys are claiming that its unconstitutional for any spying to be done in America. We can't attack countries that train, harbor and fund terrorist (Iraq, Iran, Saudia Arabia, etc). We could have extradited Osama Bin Laden in the 90's from Sudan, but Clinton refused. Liberals supported the decision because we didn't have enough evidence against him. We can't profile at airports, we can't close down charities that contribute to these organizations without criticism and the list goes on. This is exactly why I think liberals lost many recent elections. You guys have a lot of prepared criticisms, but no real plans.
__________________

__________________
boywonder is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:34 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com