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Old 11-13-2002, 11:51 AM   #46
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I find myself having to be careful with what I say or do a lot more than I used to.

Not only that, but it's the principal. I am greatly disturbed that so many people are just fine with all the steps the government has taken to limit civil liberties for the sake of national security. I'm always confronted with such questions. The Constitution gives us several guarantees, things that I can take for granted and live in comfort with. Now that they're cutting back on my Constitutional rights, I become worried that some of my more frequently used rights will be revoked. Sure I don't have anything incriminating on my hard drive. That's not the point. The point is that the Constitution guarantees me that the government cannot access it. If I did have illegal crap on my computer, I can no longer rest assured that I am safe from their prying eyes.
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Old 11-13-2002, 11:54 AM   #47
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Those who would give up freedom for security is deserving of neither.

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Old 11-13-2002, 03:57 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally posted by Not George Lucas
I find myself having to be careful with what I say or do a lot more than I used to.

Not only that, but it's the principal. I am greatly disturbed that so many people are just fine with all the steps the government has taken to limit civil liberties for the sake of national security. I'm always confronted with such questions. The Constitution gives us several guarantees, things that I can take for granted and live in comfort with. Now that they're cutting back on my Constitutional rights, I become worried that some of my more frequently used rights will be revoked. Sure I don't have anything incriminating on my hard drive. That's not the point. The point is that the Constitution guarantees me that the government cannot access it. If I did have illegal crap on my computer, I can no longer rest assured that I am safe from their prying eyes.
This is hogwash. What could you possibly be doing on your computer or elsewhere that could get you arrested? Do you routinely joke about bombing buildings or funding terrorists organizations? Do you actually fund them? Nothing short of that is going to get you in major trouble. Let me guess, you're some white liberal who's relishing his brand new, shiny persecution complex.
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Old 11-13-2002, 04:09 PM   #49
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Boy Wonder - You're wrong, and I hate you.

I do joke about bombing buildings and funding terrorist organizations. I do all kinds of things that are socially unacceptable. Furthermore, it is (or was) my right to do such things. Sadly, that is no longer the case. Now I live in a society where I have to watch what I say and put a disclaimer on everything I do. That is not America. That's not what the Constitution is about. That is not freedom.
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Old 11-13-2002, 06:29 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally posted by boywonder


...Let me guess, you're some white liberal who's relishing his brand new, shiny persecution complex.
boy,

Why the mention of race and labeling?
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Old 11-13-2002, 06:36 PM   #51
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boy,

Why the mention of race and labeling?
Because he fits a stereotype to a tee. I just wanted to make fun of a stereotype. The stereotype is that white liberals don't actually have anything that they can feel persecuted by and they want to fit into a constituency that talks about persecution of different groups within society a lot, so he grabs at thin air to find something by which he feels persecuted. You don't know REAL persecution. You don't know real OPPRESSION. You're a wannabe. Furthermore, I'm not a big fan of anyone who makes jokes about terrorism or bombing buildings. Isn't modern day liberalism supposed to be about caring and empathy for your fellow man? Don't you realize people are starving and dying on a daily basis? Thousands have died in the last year due to terrorist acts and you joke about it? Where's your heart?
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Old 11-13-2002, 06:48 PM   #52
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I hear your argument.
I don't buy it.
I have to go out, I will try and get back to this in 4-5 hours.
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Old 11-13-2002, 07:42 PM   #53
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Let me add something. There are events throughout human history like slavery and the holocaust, which everyone just agrees not to joke about. Maybe if someone searched long and hard, they could find something funny about these events but it's just something you DON'T do. The events of 9-11 and terrorist incidents like it should be added to that list. You don't see a lot of people complaining that they can't make holocaust jokes or joke about throwing people in ovens. These events have horrified a nation and it's just sick to use them for cheap laughs. Perhaps doing so makes you popular among some demented group of sardonic gen-Xers, but it just makes you a sick freak to me and most of America. The freedom to abuse pain for personal amusement was not what our founding fathers stood up for.
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Old 11-13-2002, 08:09 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally posted by boywonder
Let me add something. There are events throughout human history like slavery and the holocaust, which everyone just agrees not to joke about. Maybe if someone searched long and hard, they could find something funny about these events but it's just something you DON'T do. The events of 9-11 and terrorist incidents like it should be added to that list. You don't see a lot of people complaining that they can't make holocaust jokes or joke about throwing people in ovens. These events have horrified a nation and it's just sick to use them for cheap laughs. Perhaps doing so makes you popular among some demented group of sardonic gen-Xers, but it just makes you a sick freak to me and most of America. The freedom to abuse pain for personal amusement was not what our founding fathers stood up for.
But this is what makes freedom of speech ever the more important. Back in the 1800s, slavery was more than socially acceptable to "most of America" and if these then "sick freaks" didn't have their right to challenge the status quo, then guess what? We'd still have slavery.

Read my signature sometime; our Founding Fathers weren't these elegant people themselves. In fact, allow me to quote one of the "sick freaks":

"Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity." - Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782.

There is nothing I hate more when people start to evoke the "Founding Fathers." Spare us the mythic speech.

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Old 11-13-2002, 08:27 PM   #55
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deep = an angry white male liberal


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Old 11-13-2002, 09:24 PM   #56
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by melon


But this is what makes freedom of speech ever the more important. Back in the 1800s, slavery was more than socially acceptable to "most of America" and if these then "sick freaks" didn't have their right to challenge the status quo, then guess what? We'd still have slavery.

Read my signature sometime; our Founding Fathers weren't these elegant people themselves. In fact, allow me to quote one of the "sick freaks"


Sorry, you must be VERY confused. The "sick freaks" were abolitionists and they were speaking AGAINST slavery. Not George Lucas would have been making fun of it. Get it? He's outside of the status quo, that doesn't mean that his "opinion" is a potentially constructive one. What is he going to change? Is he going to trivialize 9-11? Are we all going to dance around and celebrate death one day due to his brave comments? Oh please!

I'd don't care if you don't like my bringing up the founding fathers. You abuse the constitution and our history for your amusement. Spare us your stupidity.
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Old 11-13-2002, 10:25 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally posted by Not George Lucas
Boy Wonder - You're wrong, and I hate you.

I do joke about bombing buildings and funding terrorist organizations. I do all kinds of things that are socially unacceptable. Furthermore, it is (or was) my right to do such things. Sadly, that is no longer the case. Now I live in a society where I have to watch what I say and put a disclaimer on everything I do. That is not America. That's not what the Constitution is about. That is not freedom.
I'm sorry, Not George Lucas, but the U.S. Supreme Court ruled long ago that there are certain limitations on freedom of speech, and a common "litmus test" type measure is "yelling fire in acrowded theater," something that potentially poses a danger to people. I do not see where it is your enumerated right to joke about blowing up buildings, funding terrorist organizations, etc. It is kind of like if someone was murdered in your town and, as a funny joke, you said "I did it!" That would aim the investigation as you; would your seriously use free speech as your defense?

Oh, and I LOVE it when I see people use the word "HATE" in this forum, especially when directing it towards other interferencers! That is so classy and funny!

~U2Alabama
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Old 11-13-2002, 10:58 PM   #58
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So, basically, we can't profile, we can't monitor the activity of suspects through their communications\internet use and we can't arrest them if they talk about blowing up buildings because these things are "unconstitutional". Even if they get caught in the act, you know the ACLU will step up to defend them. Wow! We're F*CKED!
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Old 11-13-2002, 11:08 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2Bama


...

Oh, and I LOVE it when I see people use the word "HATE" in this forum, especially when directing it towards other interferencers! That is so classy and funny!

~U2Alabama

Bama,

I was thinking the same thing. Then I reread the thread. Boywonder went off track first, getting personal. This forum has been doing better without personal attacks.
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Old 11-13-2002, 11:16 PM   #60
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Two wrongs don't make....etc.
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