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Old 02-11-2008, 06:16 PM   #181
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Quote:
Originally posted by Strongbow


Can you name anyone who voted, who would not have voted if that amendment was not on the ballot? Again, this was only on the ballot in 11 states and only 3 of those states were battleground states, and two of them went Blue, not red. Voter turnout for Republicans was up all over the country, not just in these 11 states.
Your point?

Reread my post...
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Old 02-11-2008, 06:17 PM   #182
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If one's beliefs lead to him or her supporting policies that do not guarantee equal rights for all people, then, yes, he or she is a bigot. A bigot is someone who considers himself, herself, or their group, superior to another. This always leads to them trying to deny the same rights, freedoms, and privileges they enjoy to the person(s) or group(s) deemed unworthy. If a person believes that another consenting adult doesn't deserve the same rights and privileges they enjoy as a married person, then, yes that person is a bigot.
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Old 02-11-2008, 06:24 PM   #183
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Originally posted by phillyfan26


How is Bennett's quote not a piece of evidence? The man's living is made in understanding the Republican voters in the state of Ohio. He certainly would know better than you.

And each and every person against gay marriage is a bigot. That's a fact, not an opinion.
Because Bennett is only expressing what he thinks without siting any sort of numbers or facts. He sees an increase in turnout and thinks that the amendment had an impact on that. But Republican voter turnout increased all over the country, not just in the 11 states where it was on the ballot. Bennett does not say Bush would have lost the election if the amendment had not been on the ballot.
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Old 02-11-2008, 06:26 PM   #184
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Quote:
Originally posted by Strongbow


Can you name anyone who voted, who would not have voted if that amendment was not on the ballot? Again, this was only on the ballot in 11 states and only 3 of those states were battleground states, and two of them went Blue, not red. Voter turnout for Republicans was up all over the country, not just in these 11 states.


you should probably ask Karl Rove and the Republican Party why they sought to get these amendments on the ballot just in time for the 2004 election.
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Old 02-11-2008, 06:28 PM   #185
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you should probably ask Karl Rove and the Republican Party why they sought to get these amendments on the ballot just in time for the 2004 election.
Its irrelevant.
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Old 02-11-2008, 06:29 PM   #186
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Wouldn't it be really awesome if Crist does get picked as veep, and then is gently outed? Not with criminal behavior, but just outed. How many Republican heads would explode when someone they know and respect turns out to be a gay? Would it change their minds? Would they demand his head on a stick for being a gay? Would McCain stick by him?
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Old 02-11-2008, 06:29 PM   #187
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Quote:
Originally posted by Strongbow


Its irrelevant.


clearly, they didn't think so.
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Old 02-11-2008, 06:32 PM   #188
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clearly, they didn't think so.
Doesn't matter what they think when were talking about the actual results. The amendment made it on to the ballot primarily in states where the election was not even going to be a contest. Republican turnout was up significantly everywhere, not just in states where this amendment was on the ballot.
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Old 02-11-2008, 06:37 PM   #189
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Quote:
Originally posted by Strongbow


Doesn't matter what they think when were talking about the actual results. The amendment made it on to the ballot primarily in states where the election was not even going to be a contest. Republican turnout was up significantly everywhere, not just in states where this amendment was on the ballot.
Don't you think the Republican strategists know how to cover their asses by making damned sure those amendments were on the ballot in several states where it didn't matter worth a damn so they could play innocent when they got called on doing it in the states where it did matter? Do you really think they are so stupid they didn't have that all planned out?
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Old 02-11-2008, 06:41 PM   #190
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Quote:
Originally posted by Strongbow


Doesn't matter what they think when were talking about the actual results. The amendment made it on to the ballot primarily in states where the election was not even going to be a contest. Republican turnout was up significantly everywhere, not just in states where this amendment was on the ballot.

erm, everything in this post is irrelevant.

Republicans worked to get it on the ballot in every state they could BECAUSE THEY ASSUMED IT WOULD DRIVE UP TURNOUT AMONGST THEIR EVANGELICAL BASE AND THE RESULTS BORE THAT OUT.
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Old 02-11-2008, 06:42 PM   #191
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Why does this remind me of that Monty Python skit where the man comes in looking for an argument and gets a contradiction instead?

Here we go:
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Old 02-11-2008, 06:43 PM   #192
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Originally posted by maycocksean
Right, right. That's just what was I gonna say. I was just. . uh. . testing to see if you knew. . . Yeah, that's it.
I don't in fact see a slam-dunk case for either side (or was that three sides?) in this who-gets-the-independents-in-battleground-states argument. I suspect the general election will most likely be another knockdown dragout fight, regardless of who the Democratic nominee is. In any event, it looks like momentum rather than strategic hypothesizing is driving the Democratic race at this point, and will continue to do so.

More often than not I loathe the electoral college system.
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Old 02-11-2008, 06:44 PM   #193
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Originally posted by indra


Don't you think the Republican strategists know how to cover their asses by making damned sure those amendments were on the ballot in several states where it didn't matter worth a damn so they could play innocent when they got called on doing it in the states where it did matter? Do you really think they are so stupid they didn't have that all planned out?
This was not something they did in secret, nor did they target any particular state. The biggest battleground state based on the 2000 election was Florida, and the amendment did not make it on the ballot there. The only battleground states where it made it on the ballot were Michigan, Ohio and Oregon. A majority of voters in Michigan and Oregon voted for the amendment, but they also voted for John Kerry as well.
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Old 02-11-2008, 06:46 PM   #194
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Originally posted by Irvine511



erm, everything in this post is irrelevant.

Republicans worked to get it on the ballot in every state they could BECAUSE THEY ASSUMED IT WOULD DRIVE UP TURNOUT AMONGST THEIR EVANGELICAL BASE AND THE RESULTS BORE THAT OUT.
What they assumed and what actually happened are two different things. The results show that Republican voter turnout was UP IN EVERY STATE, regardless of whether the amendment was on the ballot or not. There is nothing more relevant to this discussion than that simple fact!
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Old 02-11-2008, 06:48 PM   #195
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Originally posted by Strongbow
Because Bennett is only expressing what he thinks without siting any sort of numbers or facts. He sees an increase in turnout and thinks that the amendment had an impact on that. But Republican voter turnout increased all over the country, not just in the 11 states where it was on the ballot. Bennett does not say Bush would have lost the election if the amendment had not been on the ballot.
Except for the part where he said, "Look specifically at the results in the Bible Belt of Ohio."

But, other than him pointing to the facts and numbers, he didn't point to any facts and numbers.
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