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Old 02-11-2008, 03:55 PM   #166
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I think Irvine made that clear: The "values" voters in Ohio.
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Old 02-11-2008, 03:57 PM   #167
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[q]Same-Sex Marriage Issue Key to Some G.O.P. Races
By JAMES DAO

Published: November 4, 2004

COLUMBUS, Ohio, Nov. 3 - Proposed state constitutional amendments banning same-sex marriage increased the turnout of socially conservative voters in many of the 11 states where the measures appeared on the ballot on Tuesday, political analysts say, providing crucial assistance to Republican candidates including President Bush in Ohio and Senator Jim Bunning in Kentucky.

The amendments, which define marriage as between only a man and a woman, passed overwhelmingly in all 11 states, clearly receiving support from Democrats and independents as well as Republicans. Only in Oregon and Michigan did the amendment receive less than 60 percent of the vote.

But the ballot measures also appear to have acted like magnets for thousands of socially conservative voters in rural and suburban communities who might not otherwise have voted, even in this heated campaign, political analysts said. And in tight races, those voters - who historically have leaned heavily Republican - may have tipped the balance.

Advertisement

In Ohio, for instance, political analysts credit the ballot measure with increasing turnout in Republican bastions in the south and west, while also pushing swing voters in the Appalachian region of the southeast toward Mr. Bush. The president's extra-strong showing in those areas compensated for an extraordinarily large Democratic turnout in Cleveland and in Columbus, propelling him to a 136,000-vote victory.

"I'd be naïve if I didn't say it helped," said Robert T. Bennett, chairman of the Ohio Republican Party. "And it helped most in what we refer to as the Bible Belt area of southeastern and southwestern Ohio, where we had the largest percentage increase in support for the president."

The other states that approved the amendments on Tuesday were Arkansas, Georgia, Mississippi, Montana, North Dakota, Oklahoma and Utah. In Georgia, gay rights groups said they planned to ask a judge to strike down the amendment as soon as the election results were certified.

In Kentucky, many political analysts say the proposed amendment brought out conservative rural voters who helped Mr. Bunning, whose campaign had been foundering amid concerns about his mental health, pull out a narrow victory over Dr. Daniel Mongiardo, a Democrat. Though Dr. Mongiardo had endorsed the amendment, the Republicans ran commercials using the sound of ringing wedding bells to accuse him of being weak on the issue.

With little presidential campaigning in Kentucky because of Mr. Bush's hefty lead there, many conservative voters might have stayed home if it were not for the proposed amendment, analysts said. Supporters of the measure used extensive church networks to persuade people to vote.

"I give this amendment more credit for re-electing Jim Bunning than George Bush's coattails," said Al Cross, a longtime political reporter in Kentucky who is now interim director of the Institute for Rural Journalism and Community Issues at the University of Kentucky.[/q]
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Old 02-11-2008, 04:37 PM   #168
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Originally posted by Irvine511



what exactly is your point here? are you actually only going to concede the point that gay bashing helps get the Republican base out to vote if every voter filled out a form that says "i hate gay people"? the leaps and wild inferences you make when it comes to Iraq, and yet you won't even countenance this?

i am not saying that Bush won Ohio because of the gay bashing amendment. i am saying that the Republican base won the election for Bush, especially in Ohio, and one thing that encourages the Republican base is bashing gays. this is why Rove sought to get these amendments on the ballot in 2004, and that's one of the reasons why Bush won states with such amendments. it helped overall base turnout, which gave him the election. it's the Rove strategy. all he wants is a 50%+1 election victory.

I'm challenging the claim that the gay bashing amendment won the election for George Bush. I simply asked you to provide numbers about something that is VERY specific. You post an article that amounts to simply "political analyst" claiming the turnout was increased by the amendment, but they provide NO evidence that is in fact the case.

Yes, it was apart of Rove's strategy, but that does not prove that it in fact brought out anyone who would not have voted anyways let alone that it won the election for Bush.

The wild leaps and inferences on Iraq belong to you.
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Old 02-11-2008, 05:21 PM   #169
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Originally posted by Strongbow


I'm challenging the claim that the gay bashing amendment won the election for George Bush. I simply asked you to provide numbers about something that is VERY specific. You post an article that amounts to simply "political analyst" claiming the turnout was increased by the amendment, but they provide NO evidence that is in fact the case.

Yes, it was apart of Rove's strategy, but that does not prove that it in fact brought out anyone who would not have voted anyways let alone that it won the election for Bush.

The wild leaps and inferences on Iraq belong to you.


and this is why it's impossible to have a discussion with you, no matter the topic.

[q]"I'd be naïve if I didn't say it helped," said Robert T. Bennett, chairman of the Ohio Republican Party. "And it helped most in what we refer to as the Bible Belt area of southeastern and southwestern Ohio, where we had the largest percentage increase in support for the president."[/q]

what do you want? and why are you getting so bogged down in this when the overall argument -- Republicans kick gays to turn out the base -- is 100% true?

they put it on the ballot in Ohio. conservative, evangelicals had increased voter turnout that was enough to counter the Democratic increase in the cities, and Ohio went for Bush thus giving him the election.

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Old 02-11-2008, 05:23 PM   #170
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Originally posted by Strongbow

Yes, it was apart of Rove's strategy,
Does it make you proud to vote for a party running on a strategy of bigotry?
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Old 02-11-2008, 05:29 PM   #171
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There was plenty of evidence posted by me at the time of the election. A little research and it can be found in here.
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Old 02-11-2008, 05:35 PM   #172
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Quote:
Originally posted by Strongbow


I'm challenging the claim that the gay bashing amendment won the election for George Bush. I simply asked you to provide numbers about something that is VERY specific. You post an article that amounts to simply "political analyst" claiming the turnout was increased by the amendment, but they provide NO evidence that is in fact the case.

Yes, it was apart of Rove's strategy, but that does not prove that it in fact brought out anyone who would not have voted anyways let alone that it won the election for Bush.

The wild leaps and inferences on Iraq belong to you.
The evangelicals themselves bragged that they came out in record numbers and gave Bush the win. It was all over the media for months, you can't have this short of a memory...
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Old 02-11-2008, 05:56 PM   #173
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Originally posted by Irvine511




and this is why it's impossible to have a discussion with you, no matter the topic.

[q]"I'd be naïve if I didn't say it helped," said Robert T. Bennett, chairman of the Ohio Republican Party. "And it helped most in what we refer to as the Bible Belt area of southeastern and southwestern Ohio, where we had the largest percentage increase in support for the president."[/q]

what do you want? and why are you getting so bogged down in this when the overall argument -- Republicans kick gays to turn out the base -- is 100% true?

they put it on the ballot in Ohio. conservative, evangelicals had increased voter turnout that was enough to counter the Democratic increase in the cities, and Ohio went for Bush thus giving him the election.

Thats what Robert Bennett says, but where is the evidence? Voter turnout increased for Republicans in nearly every single county in the country over the year 2000, regardless whether the amendment was on the ballot or not.

The fact is, no one knows exactly why each of the 2,859,768 people who voted for Bush in Ohio in 2004. No one knows under what circumstances how many, if any, of these people would have stayed home that day.

Yes, there was exit polling done that indicated this or that, but it also indicated that John Kerry was going to win and he didn't.

The only thing we know for sure is that Bush came out on top.
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Old 02-11-2008, 05:59 PM   #174
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


The evangelicals themselves bragged that they came out in record numbers and gave Bush the win. It was all over the media for months, you can't have this short of a memory...
Thats great, but thats not evidence that these people would have all stayed home and Bush would have lost the election. Most of these people were going to vote for Bush no matter what. Republican turnout was up everywhere regardless of whether the amendment was on the ballot.
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Old 02-11-2008, 06:03 PM   #175
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Yes, if by evidence you want exact numbers you won't get them, I can't recall a box labeled bigot to be checked off.
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Old 02-11-2008, 06:04 PM   #176
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
Yes, if by evidence you want exact numbers you won't get them, I can't recall a box labeled bigot to be checked off.
Yet, your ready to lable many if not most of them as bigots.
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Old 02-11-2008, 06:08 PM   #177
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If a "defense of marriage act" or a gay marriage ban brings you out to vote, then yes I'm ready to call you a bigot.
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Old 02-11-2008, 06:11 PM   #178
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
If a "defense of marriage act" or a gay marriage ban brings you out to vote, then yes I'm ready to call you a bigot.
Can you name anyone who voted, who would not have voted if that amendment was not on the ballot? Again, this was only on the ballot in 11 states and only 3 of those states were battleground states, and two of them went Blue, not red. Voter turnout for Republicans was up all over the country, not just in these 11 states.
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Old 02-11-2008, 06:12 PM   #179
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
If a "defense of marriage act" or a gay marriage ban brings you out to vote, then yes I'm ready to call you a bigot.
I'm in on that one, too.
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Old 02-11-2008, 06:14 PM   #180
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Originally posted by Strongbow
Can you name anyone who voted, who would not have voted if that amendment was not on the ballot? Again, this was only on the ballot in 11 states and only 3 of those states were battleground states, and two of them went Blue, not red. Voter turnout for Republicans was up all over the country, not just in these 11 states.
How is Bennett's quote not a piece of evidence? The man's living is made in understanding the Republican voters in the state of Ohio. He certainly would know better than you.

And each and every person against gay marriage is a bigot. That's a fact, not an opinion.
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