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Old 10-10-2003, 08:14 AM   #1
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The forgotton ones in Guantanamo without rights

BBC News

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Guantanamo detentions blasted
A senior Red Cross official has launched a rare attack on the US detention of al-Qaeda and Taleban suspects at Guantanamo Bay.

Christophe Girod told the New York Times it was unacceptable that the 600 detainees should be held for open-ended terms without proper legal process.

His criticism came as a group of American former judges, diplomats and military officers called on the US Supreme Court to examine the legality of holding the foreign nationals for almost two years, without trial, charge or access to lawyers.

Mr Girod said the International Committee of the Red Cross was making the unusually blunt public statement because of a lack of action after previous private contacts with American officials.

"One cannot keep these detainees in this pattern, this situation, indefinitely," he said during a visit to the US naval base where the Taleban and al-Qaeda suspects are being held.

'Ghosts'

US officials insist there are reasons for holding the alleged fighters and say they will get a fair legal hearing in due course.

Mr Girod is leading a team from the International Committee of the Red Cross, which has just completed an inspection tour of the detention camp in Cuba.

Although he did not criticise any physical conditions at the camp, he said that it was intolerable that the complex was used as "an investigation centre, not a detention centre".

"The open-endedness of the situation and its impact on the mental health of the population has become a major problem," he told the New York Times.

Christine Huskey, an American lawyer representing 28 Kuwaiti inmates, told the BBC she had had "absolutely" no access to them.

"I represent a ghost," she told the World Today programme.

Deaf ear?

In the past 18 months, 21 detainees have made 32 suicide attempts, and many more are being treated for depression, the New York Times says.

Mr Girod says prisoners who spoke to his team regularly asked about what was going to happen to them.

GUANTANAMO BAY
United States Navy base in south-eastern Cuba
Leased by Washington since 1903, but not regarded as US territory
Houses more than 600 al-Qaeda and Taleban suspects
Inmates not covered by US constitutional guarantees

"It's always the number one question," he said. "They don't know about the future."

Camp officials have said most of the detainees' mental health problems existed before they arrived.

The Geneva-based ICRC is the only group outside the US Government allowed to visit the detention camp.

In exchange for access, the committee has agreed to take any initial complaints directly to Washington. It publicises its views only when it feels they are not being heeded.

In this instance, the ICRC says it has been urging the White House for months to make significant changes in Guantanamo.

The administration, Mr Girod said, should consider establishing a policy of giving detainees some idea of when they can learn whether they will be charged or released.

'Repugnant'

On Sunday a group including former American judges and military officials filed legal papers urging the US Supreme Court to intervene.

Don Guter, the US navy's judge advocate general until last year, said it was not acceptable simply to hold suspected al-Qaeda or Taleban members until the US war on terror was over.

The argument filed to the Supreme Court by Mr Guter and others said: "The lives of American military forces may well be endangered by the United States' failure to grant foreign prisoners in its custody the same rights that the United States insists be accorded to American prisoners held by foreigners."

That view was backed by ex-prisoners-of-war, some of whom told the Supreme Court they owed their lives to the fact that their captors abided by the Geneva conventions.

On Wednesday an Australian lawyer representing some of the suspects said they were being submitted to torture.

US officials have denied torturing detainees, saying they are allowed to practice their religion and given good medical care.
Quote:
The open-endedness of the situation and its impact on the mental health of the population has become a major problem
Christophe Girod, ICRC
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Old 10-11-2003, 02:00 AM   #2
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Im wondering why no one reads this thread.
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Old 10-11-2003, 02:59 AM   #3
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These people are are alleged terrorists they need to be detained until they are cleared or get prosecuted. Simple as that.
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Old 10-11-2003, 03:05 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bunbury
These people are are alleged terrorists they need to be detained until they are cleared or get prosecuted. Simple as that.
Whatever happend with Not guilty till proven,...but that only counts if you have a chance for a fair trail anyway.
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Old 10-11-2003, 03:06 AM   #5
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Originally posted by whenhiphopdrovethebigcars
Im wondering why no one reads this thread.
Realy ?
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Old 10-11-2003, 03:10 AM   #6
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Originally posted by Rono
Whatever happend with Not guilty till proven,...but that only counts if you have a chance for a fair trail anyway.
The beauty of this is that none of these people are American citizens and they are held under military law. Meaning they will be tried by the military.
So innocent until proven guilty does not apply
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Old 10-11-2003, 07:12 AM   #7
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What about those who might be found innocent?

Oops?
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Old 10-11-2003, 08:01 AM   #8
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Originally posted by Bunbury


The beauty of this is that none of these people are American citizens and they are held under military law. Meaning they will be tried by the military.
So innocent until proven guilty does not apply
So this are second class people and not worth a human treadment ?
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Old 10-11-2003, 09:01 AM   #9
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It is time to put them on trial. I am for that. I am not for just releasing them. A year and a half is a long time without legal contact and a trial.

I will be making calls....gag....to Senator Kennedy, Senator Kerry, and gag Rep. Barny Frank.
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Old 10-11-2003, 10:35 AM   #10
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Really, enough is enough.

Charge them or let them go. We have lost our souls to terrorism.
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Old 10-11-2003, 10:56 AM   #11
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It bothers me that these people who are against everything American suddenly want the American way when it comes to 'rights' and 'freedom.' Gung ho human rights types need to realize that these are dangerous people and they can't be treated like some 'innocent until proven guiilty' American on the street. They cannot be judged by the same standards as American criminals because their belief system, values and culture makes them very different. Don't forget, bleeding hearts, if you live in a western country, they'd just as soon see YOU dead and believe they'd get to Heaven for killing you. Think they're bad off? It's not half what they'd have done to you if they had their way. But yes, charge them, or let them go. But preferrably far, far away from me.
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Old 10-11-2003, 12:18 PM   #12
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They should be put to trial as soon as possible - and after that i hope that there will be a discussion what has bin done to the innocent imrisoned in the name of Patriotism and the Fight against Terrorism.
But i'm affraid it will be just ignored what hapened to their lifes.
Like the canadian guy ai reported about.
He was deported from the USA to Jordan for torture, because the government thought there were links to al-Qa'eda - at the end they found ot that they were wrong - oups, sorry for torturing

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Old 10-11-2003, 12:22 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by Leeloo
It bothers me that these people who are against everything American suddenly want the American way when it comes to 'rights' and 'freedom.' Gung ho human rights types need to realize that these are dangerous people and they can't be treated like some 'innocent until proven guiilty' American on the street. They cannot be judged by the same standards as American criminals because their belief system, values and culture makes them very different. Don't forget, bleeding hearts, if you live in a western country, they'd just as soon see YOU dead and believe they'd get to Heaven for killing you. Think they're bad off? It's not half what they'd have done to you if they had their way. But yes, charge them, or let them go. But preferrably far, far away from me.
Than please stop thinking that the western moral is better than moslim moral,..

How can someone say that he believe in justice for all humans and put people without any chance of a fair trail in camps. ( 103 people are under 15 years old )
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Old 10-11-2003, 12:40 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bunbury


The beauty of this is that none of these people are American citizens and they are held under military law. Meaning they will be tried by the military.
So innocent until proven guilty does not apply
I see no beauty in that.

Quote:
It bothers me that these people who are against everything American suddenly want the American way when it comes to 'rights' and 'freedom.' Gung ho human rights types need to realize that these are dangerous people and they can't be treated like some 'innocent until proven guiilty' American on the street. They cannot be judged by the same standards as American criminals because their belief system, values and culture makes them very different. Don't forget, bleeding hearts, if you live in a western country, they'd just as soon see YOU dead and believe they'd get to Heaven for killing you. Think they're bad off? It's not half what they'd have done to you if they had their way. But yes, charge them, or let them go. But preferrably far, far away from me.
You're assuming everyone of these people are guilty. You know what they say about people who assume...

These people are human like you and I, don't give me this they don't deserve the same rights bullshit!
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Old 10-11-2003, 04:17 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


I see no beauty in that.



You're assuming everyone of these people are guilty. You know what they say about people who assume...

These people are human like you and I, don't give me this they don't deserve the same rights bullshit!
There is no doubt they that need to be treated humanely. They should be accordingly to U.N. human righst laws.
But these enemy combatants do not deserve to have American legal rights, they are not even on American soil.
That is just ridiculous to even think about that.
Yes they should be released or tried and soon as possible.
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