The F$$d P$lice are C$ming

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her can-you-top-this!?! schtick has worn thin, and while we both thoroughly enjoyed our brunch at Lady and Sons a few years ago when visiting Savannah, she really is much more of a personality than a chef.

a delightful interview, though, as i've heard her talking quite charmingly on NPR about southern food and, perhaps ironically, about the wide variety of vegetables in the southern diet that are often overlooked. that and she still seems like the long-lost cast member of "Steel Magnolias." and she and her sort-of-hot sons are good TV.
god, i know. i remember whenever she deep fries anything, if it's sweet it gets topped with powdered sugar AND whipped cream...and a sprig of mint, "because you need a vegetable". uh. right. there's so much wrong with that statement - see, i know she's joking and that she means it as a joke, but 99% of her audience thinks "well golly i can eat a sprig of mint and it counts as a vegetable?! i don't have to eat those nasty turnip greens anymore!"

agreed. especially old paula deen, she reminded me of the grandma i wish i'd had, since though i lived in the south, none of my family was southern. once she realised it brought more ratings, she turned from the sweet old lady who taught you how to make apple pie from scratch (including the dough) to taking bite sized candy bars, wrapping them in pillsbury dough, and frying them. people rag on sandra lee for using packaged stuff, sometimes paula deen's recipes are just as bad. at least sandra's schtick is for people who are short on time and money (though those spice packets are more expensive than you'd think), paula passes off recipes with cans of soup in them as her "best dishes", with no mention of taking these shortcuts because she has two jobs or anything that would make sense.
 
i'm curious, yolland -- as a southerner, what do you think Paula gets wrong with her food?

as a northerner who has essentially married a southerner, what i find so interesting is how simple but delicious southern food is, and the amount of pride that women (usually) take in "their" dishes, in their grandmother's coconut cake, etc. it's a food culture that i don't think is as present in the north and reminds me much more of Europe where food is indispensable from any understanding of culture and heritage.
That's very true...it also tends to mean that Southerners are more opinionated about what food purporting to be Southern "should" taste like, make stronger emotional associations between "their" food and the kind of environment (social and physical) it symbolizes to them, and are correspondingly often more touchy about how that food is represented to others.

I probably have a hard time separating Deen's Top-this-y'all!! schtick (and my somewhat chagrined sense that it's become The Face of Southern cooking and eating) from the food itself, honestly. There are plenty of things I've seen her make that seemed very familiar, more or less like any other version of that dish I've eaten. It's the (increasingly) heavy dose of 1970s-churchladies'-potluck sensibility (sorry, don't know how else to characterize it!) plus the Top-this-y'all!! overkill (which I can recognize as a certain kind of camp, but I'm not sure her audience always does) that grate on me. It doesn't make a dish more "Southern" to add a half-pound of cream cheese and an extra stick of butter to it, or to make it with Krispy Kreme donuts instead of stale bread, or to add a heap of chopped bacon and/or sausage when it's already got ham hocks or fatback. It just makes it at best heavier, at worst overkill. It's something like the way southern Italian food used to be (badly) represented in the US by soggy, heavy meatball grinders with too much meat, too much sauce, too much cheese, too much everything--sure, it's supposed to be robustly flavored and hearty, but it's also supposed to have its own concept of thoughtfully established balance in flavor and texture, like all cuisines do.

I'm more "Southern-born-and-raised" then a "Southerner," necessarily--I've spent more than half my life in the Midwest now, and my parents weren't even American by background, let alone Southern, though they loved it there and felt deeply at home in the particular community we lived in (including the food). So my bias, and every "Southerner" has one I guess, would be that my own first associations are with Delta country food, soul food--lots of greens, beans, sweet potatoes, batter breads and dumplings, garden vegetables, braised and roasted and BBQ'd meats, deep-fried fish and chicken, gumbos (simpler than the NOLA varieties), a strong hand with the chiles (and admittedly the salt shaker too), pies and cobblers and more occasionally cakes. Not much dairy--relatively few dishes involved cheese, cream, sour cream or even butter, animal fats or shortening being preferred; not many casseroles either; potato salad, deviled eggs and catfish pâté (yes!) were about the only things I remember anyone putting mayonnaise in, other than the usual pan-American sandwiches. I never heard of cheese straws, pimiento cheese, Jell-O salads (other than the ubiquitous funeral reception tomato aspic), or anything involving canned cream of mushroom soup until long after I'd moved away and started perusing Southern cookbooks. That's not a criticism of those things...I love cooking from some of the books I have by Scott Peacock & Edna Lewis, Martha Hall Foose, Jean Anderson, James Villas, Norma Jean & Carole Darden, Ronni Lundy, Damon Lee Fowler, Joyce White, and the Lee Brothers...they're a very varied lot in terms of (sub)regional style and how contemporary they are, but I enjoy them all. Maybe if I hadn't known Paula Deen as an over-the-top TV personality first, I'd have a cookbook or two of hers as well, but as it is, I guess where others see homey and humble (descriptions that normally attract me in food) I too often see a totally unappealing lack of subtlety, and some perhaps otherwise recognizable tendencies pushed to offputting extremes.
 
this concept of food and meals in the south intrigues me. i come from a family that cooks and sits down together for food maybe ten times in the whole year.
 
Paula Deen makes me want to fucking vomit.


Big Southern spreads at mealtime are the best though. I have fond memories of visiting relatives in Tennessee and buttermilk biscuits, cornbread, okra, and creamed corn.
 
neither Memphis nor i were remotely surprised by this, nor the fact that she's (possibly?) endorsing a drug. girlfriend will endorse anything.
Looks like you guys were right; the initial leak/rumor just had the company wrong.


MSNBC, Jan 17
Queen of comfort cuisine Paula Deen confirmed to Al Roker Tuesday that she has type-2 diabetes. In her first broadcast interview discussing the disease, Deen said she intentionally kept the diagnosis secret after discovering she had it during a routine physical three years ago. “I came home, I told my children, I told my husband, I said, ‘I’m gonna keep this close to my chest for the time being’ because I had to figure out things in my own head,” she told Roker on TODAY.

...“I’m here today to let the world know that it is not a death sentence,” said the Food Network star, who is now being paid as a spokesperson for Novo Nordisk, the pharmaceutical company that supplies her diabetes medication. Coinciding with her announcement, Deen and her family are appearing in a new ad campaign for the company this month.

...Deen said her reputation wasn't the reason she kept the diagnosis under wraps. "I wanted to bring something to the table when I came forward," she explained. When asked about whether she will make a change in how she cooks on her show, “Paula’s Best Dishes,” Deen didn't give a direct answer, instead encouraging viewers to practice moderation. “Here’s the thing, you know, I’ve always encouraged moderation,” she said. “On my show, you know, I share with you all these yummy, fattening recipes, but I tell people 'in moderation...You can have that little piece of pie...' I have always eaten in moderation...You know, people see me on TV two or three times a day and they see me cooking all these wonderfully Southern, fattening dishes. That’s only 30 days out of 365," she said. "And it’s for entertainment. And people have to be responsible. Like I told Oprah a few years ago, honey, I’m your cook, not your doctor. You are going to have to be responsible for yourself."

...Deen, who told TODAY.com last year that she couldn’t do without butter or a deep-fryer, was called out by fellow food personality Anthony Bourdain in a TV Guide article for being “the worst, most dangerous person to America," who "revels in her unholy connections with evil corporations" and is "proud of the fact that her food is f---ing bad for you." Deen responded, telling the New York Post, “Anthony Bourdain needs to get a life.” Positioning herself as relatable to the home cook, she added, "Not everybody can afford to pay $58 for prime rib or $650 for a bottle of wine. My friends and I cook for regular families who worry about feeding their kids and paying the bills." Bourdain, who says he was flooded by requests for quotes after news of Deen’s announcement leaked, shared his reaction with Eater.com. “When your signature dish is hamburger in between a doughnut, and you've been cheerfully selling this stuff knowing all along that you've got type 2 diabetes...it's in bad taste if nothing else.”

While Deen will continue cooking her fatty comfort meals on her show, her son Bobby has been promoting lower-calorie versions of his mom’s recipes (sans the butter and heavy cream), with his new Cooking Channel show, “Not My Mama’s Meals.”
Pffft, when has she ever made a point of emphasizing moderation on her shows? Not in any episodes I've seen.

Is there a legitimate ethical issue in the fact that she hid this diagnosis, while continuing to publically specialize in anything-but-"moderate," and now plans to be a spokesperson for diabetes medication while (I guess) effectively letting her son handle the "keeping it real" niche? Or is this nothing more than a fair lesson in caveat emptor for viewers and readers (she sells boatloads of cookbooks too) who were the only ones responsible all along for shaping their own sensibilities about cooking and eating?

Regardless, I wish her the best of luck managing her condition.
 
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Sure diabetes isn't always a death sentence. It is in some cases a lifespan shortening sentence, I would say more often than not. And the direct complications can be a death sentence. But it complicates things daily, even the most benign things you wouldn't even think of. I just think that's irresponsible (not to mention making money off it), to say that is somehow her mission now. When clearly her mission was never to prevent type 2 diabetes. That moderation thing is a crock, revisionist history on her part. Hamburger with bacon and egg served on a glazed doughnut, does moderation even matter? Why even promote something like that at all, something that belongs at the heart attack grill?

HIV is no longer a death sentence, doesn't mean people should go around having unprotected sex.
 
Gooey Butter Cakes are the only Paula Deen recipe I've ever tried. Thankfully they are so sweet I can't eat more than one in one sitting, or I'd be on my way to Diabetes as well.

But man. Man, oh man, so delicious.
 
This really says it all:

Paula Deen Confirms She Has Diabetes, Plus 25 Reasons Why We're Not Surprised

(I do admit a weakness for bacon now and again but almost everything pictured on that webpage made me want to hurl. Especially the meatloaf.)
how ridiculous. i mean granted, she doesn't owe anyone anything to tell us she has diabetes, but to actually sit there and say she's always talked about moderation? uh, no. i've watched many of her shows and she very rarely, if ever says these butter, sugar, chocolate, and cheese-filled, deep-fried meals are a special occasion treat to be enjoyed once in a while. you can't build an empire on something you make very rarely. besides, when you add up her 20,000 heart attack-inducing recipes, yeah you'll really only have time to make each one once in a while anyway.

but of course your average person won't hold america's most beloved grandma dirty old lady to these standards. yet michelle obama is photographed eating a cheeseburger one time and she's a hypocrite.
 
Gooey butter cakes are one of her (semi-)traditional recipes actually...they're a St. Louis classic (though bakeries there traditionally make them with a coffee cake base, not yellow cake mix).
 
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just chatting with Memphis about this (we're both home sick today), and he's a little bit peeved about Paula being singled out for having diabetes. he says that if you go through his family's recipes and church cookbooks of people who grew up poor-ish in the South you'll find many of Paula's recipes fairly well represented. that this is how people *do* eat, though her top-this-y'all! campy persona is as much show business as anything else.

also, many other celebrity chefs are heavy -- Ina Garten, Emeril, Mario Batali -- but would we have the same reaction if one of them developed diabetes? further, Bourdain is an engaging writer and TV personality, but is the food he served up at Les Halles back in the day any less loaded with butter and oil than what Paula makes? is foie gras really that much better for you than fried green tomatoes?

is the schadenfreude involved with her diagnosis -- admittedly, setting aside her endorsement, or as Bourdain tweeted, "thinking of getting into the leg-breaking business so i can sell crutches" -- a form of snobbery against southern accents and down-home-y'all attitude?
 
I am also at home with the plague today.

I think to me the difference is that I often got the feeling that she was being unhealthy on purpose, just for the sake of it. That is not to knock southern food - I've traveled a lot through the US south (I be considerably more than many Americans here), I've been to Savannah a number of times and I actually really like southern fried chicken. Not a huge fan of the green fried tomatoes, but the 2 or 3 occasions on which I tried deep fried mac 'n cheese, thought it was pretty delicious.

The thing is, when you choose to make something like a Krispy Kreme burger, which I really believe there is no need for, or deep fry a bagel filled with potato chips or deep fry balls of butter and promote that sort of excess so that you become publicly known exactly for it, then there is a tendency for people to not be surprised by the outcome.

:shrug:
 
oh i agree -- stuff like the Krispy Kreme burger is really showmanship more than anything, and reinforcing a brand. i suppose the question is how much responsibility she has for, 1) her own health problems (lots), and 2) whatever her audience chooses to eat. at least on my visit to Savannah, it seemed people were much more impressed with Paula's business sense than the food served at Lady and Sons. they all recommended here as a much better place:

Mrs. Wilkes' Dining Room
 
Agreed about the schadenfreude; that was what I meant earlier about finding the tone of some of the comments I'd seen on certain food forums pretty appalling. Most of the harshest ones, like most of the most-sympathetic ones, actually came from Southerners, and Southern 'foodies' do typically have the strongest feelings about her either way in my experience, though presumptions triggered by accent--and helped along by Deen's own schtick--doubtless do heighten the schadenfreude of many (so that Deen gets Southern Fat Lady Disease, figures!, whereas hypothetical-diabetic-Ina would probably just have 'an overeating problem,' since being a high-powered East Hampton entrepreneur is, you know, stressful and stuff). The Neelys draw a similar response BTW, not as strongly, but then they're far less famous. I would never criticize Deen's cooking by saying, "Besides look how fat she is, gross, whaddya expect, she eats fried chicken and fried green tomatoes," not least because I eat them too.

From having read several of his diatribes on various celebrity cooks, I do get the sense that Bourdain's past and current rants on Deen (which also promote his own brand as the food world's 'leading' caustic wit, natch) are really less about the calorie counts of her food than an aesthetic response, shock at a perceived lack of balance that he takes for granted should spring naturally from a good cook's respect for ingredients, tradition and the interplay of flavors. And up to a point I can relate to that, honestly. Definitely not because my basic kitchen instincts were formed in some haute atmosphere--I grew up one of 7 people in a 4-room house, we were on food stamps and had no car much of that time--so I find her retort that her cooking is simply that of people who can't afford "$58 for prime rib or $650 for a bottle of wine" equally eyeroll-worthy to his "most dangerous person to America" hysterics. Anyhow, to return to the aesthetics point, while that's not per se the same issue as whether someone eats immoderately all the time, I don't think it's unfair to suggest that cooking and eating sensibilities tend to be interrelated (though that could certainly be qualified--some individuals will always be predisposed to overeat; the mind-boggling array of foods now available year-round removes most of the constraints that were actually central to shaping traditional cuisines; the lengths to which we've commodified food, a built-in paradox of 'food media' as Bourdain acknowledges, don't help matters and greatly accelerate phenomena that were always there, like yesterday's fumbling expression of class aspirations becoming today's 'down-homey' or yesterday's poverty food becoming coveted and chic). It's good and something to preserve in a culture when knowing how to delight, comfort and bring together people through food is highly valued, and yes the vigorous tradition of church/Junior League/community cookbook-publishing in the South attests to the persistence of that, but that's not all there is to respecting your roots, or to nourishment for that matter.

And Interference probably isn't the right forum to post this babble, but. :huh:
 
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America has an obesity problem, and Paula Deen's attitude certainly does not help it.

You cannot put her in the same category as other fat celebrity chefs, at least the ones like Batali who have made their bones working in high-end professional restaurant kitchens banging out hundreds of quality dishes night after night.

When you go out to a high-end restaurant you eat the duck confit, you eat the foie, you eat ravioli, whatever. You don't and shouldn't think of health concerns when you go out to eat at a nice place because it is a fairly uncommon treat for a middle class dinner out.

Deen is preaching everyday family gathering home cooking, and a lot of that unhealthy cooking is gratuitously and gleefully presented. I almost feel like it's very irresponsible of the network to give her a pulpit on cable television. Every time she gushes at the camera holding a deep-fried bar of butter or a bacon and Krispy Kreme sandwich, she may as well be saying, ''Please...kill yourself, you fat fuck'' to the viewer.
 
You cannot put her in the same category as other fat celebrity chefs, at least the ones like Batali who have made their bones working in high-end professional restaurant kitchens banging out hundreds of quality dishes night after night.


in all fairness, she started out selling bag lunches to people in Savannah. she built up from there eventually opening a restaurant, writing a cook book, and landing a TV show. she has no professional training, she grew up poor, etc. her story is really remarkable and much more unexpected than that of a highly trained professional chefs working in Manhattan or San Francisco. at least her fatness is authentic and earned.
 
Study: Quebec ban on fast-food ads reduced consumption of junk food

Kathy Baylis, a professor of agricultural and consumer economics, studied the ban on junk-food advertising imposed in the Canadian province of Quebec from 1984 to 1992 and its effect on fast-food purchases.

By comparing English-speaking households, who were less likely to be affected by the ban, to French-speaking households, Baylis and co-author Tirtha Dhar, of the University of British Columbia, found evidence that the ban reduced fast-food expenditures by 13 percent per week in French-speaking households, leading to between 11 million and 22 million fewer fast-food meals eaten per year, or 2.2 billion to 4.4 billion fewer calories consumed by children.

"Given the nature of Quebec's media market and demographics, a ban would disproportionately affect French-speaking households, but would not affect similar households in Ontario or households without children in either province," Baylis said.

Baylis says the study is applicable to the U.S., although the results wouldn't be quite as robust if bans were instituted state by state.

"What we found is that advertising bans are most effective when children live in an isolated media market, and it's only because they're in an isolated media market that they're getting these effects," she said. "If any state on their own decided to do this, it would be problematic. If the U.S. as a whole decided to do it, our research indicates that such a ban could be successful. The comparison is a strongly regulated system in Quebec to a less strongly regulated system in Ontario, and we still found an effect. If anything, our study is finding a lower-bound of that effect." The big caveat to the study, according to Baylis, is that it's based on data from the 1980s and '90s.

"Obviously, the Internet has exploded since then, and computer games have also risen in popularity," she said. "So we don't know how well a television ban would work when children are spending an increasing amount of time online rather than watching TV. So it would be very hard to enforce an Internet ban, and the only way to tackle it would be how they're doing it in Quebec, which is to prohibit advertising websites for junk food during cartoons, or even on product packaging in stores. But if a 10-year-old is searching for 'Lucky Charms' on the Internet, that would be hard to police on its own."
News from north of the border. Filter through your own personal beliefs on the role of government, our responsibility to the well-being of society in general, and shake thoroughly (serve chilled).

I think the basic conclusion of this study is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDW_Hj2K0wo
 
I teach in a middle school and in the past ten years the powers in charge have taken out the vending machines of soda and candy.

Oh yeah, that fights obesity :huh:

Study: Junk food at middle schools doesn't weigh on student obesity | StarTribune.com
Let's be honest, though, if your middle school is anything like my U.S. middle school from the early 2000s, lunch must be a lot of bread-based products stuffed with meat and cheese and tomato sauce then stuffed in the microwave.

Cutting vending machines doesn't do much good if the caf is serving up pizza rolls and those low-quality frozen french fries that are soft and taste more of cheese than actual spud.
 
Let's be honest, though, if your middle school is anything like my U.S. middle school from the early 2000s, lunch must be a lot of bread-based products stuffed with meat and cheese and tomato sauce then stuffed in the microwave.

Cutting vending machines doesn't do much good if the caf is serving up pizza rolls and those low-quality frozen french fries that are soft and taste more of cheese than actual spud.
there's very little meat in these gym mats.
 
first, i'd love to see the America you think you grew up in. it sounds like it was lovely.

second, is Rush Limbaugh really the person we should look to for food advice?

rush-limbaugh-big-fat-idiot-dittohead-hillbilly-heroin-oxycodine.jpg
 
First, did you even take time to read the article?



yup.

i've since moved on to an article where Rush trashes Marianne Gingrich.

i see you just added another link. here's a paragraph you should notice:

According to Thomas Brenna, a professor of nutritional sciences at Cornell University who has extensively reviewed the literature on coconut oil, a considerable part of its stigma can be traced to one major factor.

“Most of the studies involving coconut oil were done with partially hydrogenated coconut oil, which researchers used because they needed to raise the cholesterol levels of their rabbits in order to collect certain data,” Dr. Brenna said. “Virgin coconut oil, which has not been chemically treated, is a different thing in terms of a health risk perspective. And maybe it isn’t so bad for you after all.”

Partial hydrogenation creates dreaded trans fats. It also destroys many of the good essential fatty acids, antioxidants and other positive components present in virgin coconut oil. And while it’s true that most of the fats in virgin coconut oil are saturated, opinions are changing on whether saturated fats are the arterial villains they were made out to be. “I think we in the nutrition field are beginning to say that saturated fats are not so bad, and the evidence that said they were is not so strong,” Dr. Brenna said.



pretty sure that movie theater popcorn was made with partially hydrogenated coconut oil -- quite different from the virgin coconut oil which has not ben chemically treated.
 
Awaiting your thoughts on popcorn :wave:



do you not read on purpose?

Rush wasn't talking about pop corn either. he was trashing "government."

and, finally, it doesn't matter how "good" coconut oil is for you -- the serving sizes at the movie theater are unhealthy for anyone.
 
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