Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
there's a reason why Colin Powell's wife was against him running for higher office.
anitram said:
When people start bringing up RFK, I get this uneasy feeling too.
U2democrat said:
My parents and I are the same way. I don't think the country could handle another devastating loss like that.
Though, Secret Service for Presidential candidates started the day after RFK was killed.
Go Obama
corianderstem said:Why did you find it offputting? And deflect what?
I don't think I understand what you're saying there.
joyfulgirl said:The sort of religious-like fervor surrounding him. He can't help how people respond to him but he doesn't have to encourage it by appearing to be a preacher in front of a choir.
anitram said:I watched that speech and it never occurred to me that there was a quasi-choir behind him. I'd be willing to bet that 95% of people didn't either.
U2democrat said:I was oblivious to that too until it was pointed out
joyfulgirl said:
Maybe. My friend's an atheist, and I'm non-religious. We noticed it immediately. I was put off by it the same way I'm put off by Bush's Biblical references in speeches. I'm NOT comparing Obama to Bush in any way, but some people just really don't want religious symbolism mixed with politics, and are sensitive to it.
joyfulgirl said:
Maybe. My friend's an atheist, and I'm non-religious. We noticed it immediately. I was put off by it the same way I'm put off by Bush's Biblical references in speeches. I'm NOT comparing Obama to Bush in any way, but some people just really don't want religious symbolism mixed with politics, and are sensitive to it.
Irvine511 said:
but i don't get the aggressiveness that i got from Bush, and i don't see his faith as being as exclusive as Bush's faith.
...
i feel fairly certain he's not going to excuse hate speech as nothing more than religious expression.
U2isthebest said:
I think it would be incorrect to assume that Obama is using "religious symbolism" simply to attract voters,
Irvine511 said:
i feel this way too. there aren't enough eyerolling emoticons to express my irritation when the Democrats did their faith panderthon last fall. i really don't care about a politicians faith in the slightest, right up until he starts to use that faith as either a rationale for policy or a rationale to vote for him. then it matters.
Obama has been a bit too religious for my taste. i just don't see what it has to do with anything at all. but i don't get the aggressiveness that i got from Bush, and i don't see his faith as being as exclusive as Bush's faith.
but i'm dancing around this issue. so i'll spell it out. it's ugly, but its how i feel. it seems that whenever anyone paints themselves as "religious" in any sort of public forum, that's just code for anti-choice/anti-gay. and the implication being that those who are pro-choice/pro-gay cannot possibly be authentically religious. aside from the whole separation of church and state thing, it strikes me that politicians only introduce their "personal religious convictions" when they're dressing up some kind of institutionalized hate speech or sucking up to faith-based groups (some of whom do good work, it must be said). so it's not just the intellectual desire to have faith and politics operating in two separate spheres, but it's been the very lived in reality of the past 20 years, and especially the past 8, that Christian = gay hater.
and so, in so many words, i find Obama's fairly overt faith much more comforting because i feel fairly certain he's not going to excuse hate speech as nothing more than religious expression. and he's the only candidate who mentions gay people in his stump speech. and he's walked into african-american churches and chided them for their homophobia and blamed them for the long suffering gay black male.
joyfulgirl said:
Never said he was. I have no idea if what I saw was intentional or purely coincidental. But I noticed it and was turned off. That's all I'm saying.
U2isthebest said:
It seems as though the candidates from both parties have to "Jesus it up" during elections if they want to gain support from even moderately religious individuals.
joyfulgirl said:
This is the unfortunate reality.
MaxFisher said:
why?
the majority of americans consider themselves "Christian". why wouldn't a politician's rhetoric tap into this?
joyfulgirl said:Is he the opposite side of the same George Bush coin?
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/25/obama-and-faith-on-the-stump/
Irvine511 said:just to add, i don't want to say that in the real world i automatically think that someone who's really into their Christianity is going to hate me. not at all, and that's something i've learned from FYM.
but when a Republican starts to talk about their faith, yes, that's what i automatically begin to think. fair or not, that's been the experience of the past 7 years.
Diemen said:
Well, considering there's also an underground current of "he's a muslim, oh and he refused to swear in on the Bible" floating around, I don't blame him for being explicit in stating his religious convictions to those who would care.