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Old 03-03-2008, 08:56 PM   #241
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Originally posted by deep


So, if one is not wooed by charisma and fancy speeches

What are they to do?
Well, you can study the issues and the candidate's stance on them and make a decision based on that. You clearly feel that Obama is not yet seasoned enough to manage the presidency and that actually IS a legitmate reason not to support his run at this time. But the argument can be--and is being--made that while his "experience" may be little, his judgement is sound. We can argue back and forth on that topic and I have no problem with that.

What I do have a problem with is the intellectually lazy position of saying "He is charismatic and give fancy speeches THEREFORE he has no substance." I do have a problem with the assumption that all Obama supporters are wooed by his charisma and fancy speeches. You are correct--his charisma shouldn't be such a huge factor. But it shouldn't be a factor for OR against him.

(Though, granted Irvine has made a pretty compelling case for why that charisma and charm might be--gasp!--an actual asset!)
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Old 03-03-2008, 09:07 PM   #242
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Originally posted by maycocksean

(Though, granted Irvine has made a pretty compelling case for why that charisma and charm might be--gasp!--an actual asset!)


i know, right?

can you imagine? charism and charm being political assets!?!?!



in what world!
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Old 03-04-2008, 01:43 PM   #243
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Angry Barack Obama bombarded by media

BY MICHAEL SAUL
DAILY NEWS POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT

Tuesday, March 4th 2008, 1:51 AM

SAN ANTONIO, Tex. - An exasperated Barack Obama scurried away Monday from the toughest news conference of his campaign, telling reporters who kept shouting questions that he'd spent enough time on the grill.

"Come on! I just answered, like, eight questions," Obama, looking surprised, told shouting reporters as he fled the room. "We're running late."

The Clinton campaign has long complained that Obama gets soft treatment from the press corps. But Monday's exchange was no pillow fight.

The first question was about a private talk an Obama economic adviser had with a Canadian official - reportedly saying that the harshness of Obama's criticisms of the North American Free Trade Agreement was for political show.

Last week, Obama denied an initial media report about the conversation. But after a Canadian government memo surfaced, he acknowledged yesterday there was a conversation.

"When I gave you that information, that was the information that I had at the time," he said. His camp still disputes the memo's account of the discussion.

The questioning then turned to Obama's links to ex-fund-raiser Tony Rezko, who went on trial in Chicago Monday on corruption charges. A reporter asserted Obama hadn't fully answered journalists' questions on Rezko.

Obama insisted he had - during a past news conference with Chicago media. But another persisted that questions remain unanswered, such as ones about fund-raisers Rezko held for him.

Obama replied, "These requests, I think, can just go on forever. ..." He said the "pertinent" information had been provided.

When Obama declared the press conference over, one reporter yelled that he was dodging questions just minutes after claiming he wasn't.


Obama is not ready for prime time!

2008 should have been his chance to learn the ropes.

My concern is he will be taken a part, piece by piece.

And squander what might have been a very promising career.


Hillary could take this crap for an hour.

She is so battle tested and scared up, she would not even flinch.
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Old 03-04-2008, 01:45 PM   #244
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Originally posted by deep



Hillary could take this crap for an hour.

She is so battle tested and scared up, she would not even flinch.
Oh would she? She wouldn't whine about it?
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Old 03-04-2008, 01:45 PM   #245
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What ever works

she does not run away.
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Old 03-04-2008, 02:16 PM   #246
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep

Hillary could take this crap for an hour.

She is so battle tested and scared up, she would not even flinch.


no, she'd cry.

so she'd get more votes.
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Old 03-04-2008, 02:17 PM   #247
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What ever works

she does not run away.
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Old 03-04-2008, 02:32 PM   #248
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deep, you've really confounded me. i really see no basis for your support of Hillary other than your need to tweak those who support Obama, and to mock Obama himself.

it does seem like she's going to win OH. and this might very well be to Obama what South Carolina was to McCain in 2000.

what i am getting sick of is the portrayal of those who support Obama has having somehow drunk the Kool-Aid. and i would say that Obama supporters are very different from Bush supporters.

most of the reason for my support of Obama over Hillary is because he's the next step. he gets us out of the Baby Boom. he gets us away from Karl Rove politics and careful legalisms and Boomer narcissism. he is calm, careful, reasonable, and does not anger quickly, if at all. compare this to the "me, me, me" speeches of Hillary, to her talk of the VRWC, to her paranoia, to her legion of yes-men, to her continuous streak of self-pity, right down to the very fact that she sees herself as destined -- in a way that GWB thought of himself as destined -- to be the first female president.

we have deep problems in this country. note that the Republicans nominated the only adult on their side who was running for president. they rejected the dick swinger (Giuliani). they rejected the android (Romney). they rejected the Christo-fascist (Huckabee). they went for the only plausible candidate in the room with a history of bipartisanship and appeal to both sides of the isle.

there is not a single Democrat in the House or Senate who is as polarizing as Hillary Rodham Clinton. there is a not a single Democrat who is as unappealing to the vast masses of blue collar white men. there is no other candidate where those with only a passing familiarity with politics -- which is most voters, as most voters have other things to think about -- feel as if it's a perfectly legitimate argument to dismiss Hillary as a "bitch."

Obama will not part the seas and defeat this combative system and we'll suddenly live in an enlightened world. no one thinks that. but what we do know is that, of all possible candidates, the one most likely to breath new life into this weary, tiresome, exasperating, and immensely self-destructive political playbook of us vs. them, is Hillary Rodham Clinton. she is a log on the smoldering embers of Rovian personal destruction. she is gasoline to the nearly snuffed out cigarette butt of Vietnam-era irrationalities.

it is somewhat her fault. she has conducted her campaign in a manner similar to how Bush has conducted his presidency. she (and her husband) and Bush the Junior are opposite sides of the same coin, and i want a new currency.
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Old 03-04-2008, 02:36 PM   #249
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^I agree completely. I now have nothing more to add here. You said way it better than I could've.
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Old 03-04-2008, 02:37 PM   #250
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep


Hillary could take this crap for an hour.

She is so battle tested and scared up, she would not even flinch.
Now who's drinking the kool-aid? We've seen plenty of flinching this campaign from her...
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Old 03-04-2008, 02:50 PM   #251
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wink

Hillary praying for her opponent Barrack:

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Old 03-04-2008, 03:13 PM   #252
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Irvine pretty much nailed it. What I will say is that I've become increasingly nauseated at watching the depths to which the Clinton campaign will stoop. This past week and a half has been nothing but pure filth. Yesterday alone we had her saying that "as far as she knew" Obama was not a Muslim (excuse me, what?) and then this stab in the back. "I think you'll be able to imagine many things Senator McCain will be able to say. He's never been the president, but he will put forth his lifetime of experience. I will put forth my lifetime of experience. Senator Obama will put forth a speech he made in 2002." So basically, we have a Democratic candidate openly declaring that the opposition party candidate is better than someone from her own party who could very well be our nominee. WTF? Literally, I don't know what to think other than that she's decided that if she can't be the nominee, then she'd rather see Obama lose to McCain and she's actively giving McCain ammunition for his campaign.

We need serious change. I don't see Clinton offering us anything but more of the same divisive politics that we've endured for the last eight years. She can't even manage a civil campaign, how can I trust her to be anything different as President?
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Old 03-04-2008, 03:31 PM   #253
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Originally posted by Irvine511


it is somewhat her fault. she has conducted her campaign in a manner similar to how Bush has conducted his presidency. she (and her husband) and Bush the Junior are opposite sides of the same coin, and i want a new currency.
I you, and I would only add to this that in her campaign she has valued loyalty over competence, and that scares me...because it is awfully familiar...
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Old 03-04-2008, 04:37 PM   #254
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Originally posted by sulawesigirl4
Yesterday alone we had her saying that "as far as she knew" Obama was not a Muslim (excuse me, what?) and then this stab in the back. "I think you'll be able to imagine many things Senator McCain will be able to say. He's never been the president, but he will put forth his lifetime of experience. I will put forth my lifetime of experience. Senator Obama will put forth a speech he made in 2002." So basically, we have a Democratic candidate openly declaring that the opposition party candidate is better than someone from her own party who could very well be our nominee. WTF?
Yeah, it's quite worthy...
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Old 03-04-2008, 04:57 PM   #255
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why worry about Ohio when you can win Kansas?



[q]Daily Dose: Poll: Obama would have shot at winning Kansas
By Dr. Bob Beatty
Special to The Capital-Journal
Published Tuesday, March 04, 2008

For the Past three decades, Kansas has been a reliable, easy win for the Republican presidential candidate.

Since 1996, the average margin of victory for the GOP standard bearer over the Democratic Party candidate has been 21 points.

But a poll released Feb. 22 by Survey USA that matches Republican Sen. John McCain against Democratic senators Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama reveals data suggesting something that hasn't been contemplated since the 1992 Bush-Clinton-Perot election.

The GOP candidate might not be a lock in the Sunflower State.

It's still a long way from November, but the poll shows many Kansans are keeping an open mind about Obama, and it adds weight to those who think the Illinois senator would make a stronger candidate than Clinton in the general election.

Here's why:

1. McCain beats Hillary Clinton easily

The statewide poll of registered voters shows McCain would defeat Clinton by 24 points in a general election matchup, 59 percent to 35 percent, with 6 percent undecided.

Among several groups of voters, McCain has substantial leads. Men prefer him by 39 points, young people by 26, and in western Kansas, he has a 30 point lead. In voter-rich eastern Kansas, he leads Clinton 58-38, and in the Wichita area, McCain is up by 16 points.

Even among women, a group Clinton has done well with in the Democratic primaries, she loses to McCain by eight points.

The only groups in which Clinton leads McCain are those who consider health care or the environment the No. 1 issue in America. For every other issue — the economy, immigration, social security, education, terrorism, even Iraq — Clinton has less support than the Arizona senator.

2. McCain beats Obama, but it's closer

In contrast to Clinton's numbers, the poll shows Obama is within striking distance of McCain, garnering 44 percent to McCain's 50 percent with 7 percent undecided.

Where is Obama picking up support that Clinton didn't get? He actually beats McCain among women (by seven points) and young people (by six points) and does 20 points better among men than Clinton.

But the key for Obama in Kansas is with independent voters. Where Clinton loses to McCain among independents, Obama wins that group from McCain by 21 points. Obama also beats McCain among self-described moderates by 14 points, a group Clinton loses by 12 points.

Among issues voters, McCain beats Obama among those who are concerned with immigration, terrorism, social security and education, but Obama wins among Kansans worried about the economy, the environment, health care and Iraq.

Geographically, Obama loses to McCain across the state, but he is within five points in both the Wichita area — where Obama's grandparents are from — and eastern Kansa[/q]
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