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Old 02-20-2008, 10:22 PM   #211
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^^Yes. Lying about and defaming a person's character is just the funniest damn thing ever.

What a fool. I'm sure someone who's had an affair with Obama is going to go on Youtube and talk about it.
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Old 02-20-2008, 10:24 PM   #212
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Originally posted by Irvine511
if the evangelicals stay home,
I don't believe this will happen in Nov

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Originally posted by Irvine511
the white male moderates go for the black guy
this could describe me

and the Obama's are alienating me.

and as for the supreme court picks

I am not sure what to expect from Obama, especially in a first term
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Old 02-20-2008, 10:27 PM   #213
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i cannot understand how, after all that has transpired in this election and given the male Clinton's behavior, that the Obamas could possibly be more "alienating" than the ultimate power couple behaving badly and losing primaries and presenting the campaign as little more than a Lifetime "... watch one woman's journey ..." narrative filled with the most narcissistic speeches i've ever heard.
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Old 02-20-2008, 11:18 PM   #214
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i cannot understand how, after all that has transpired in this election and given the male Clinton's behavior, that the Obamas could possibly be more "alienating" than the ultimate power couple behaving badly and losing primaries and presenting the campaign as little more than a Lifetime "... watch one woman's journey ..." narrative filled with the most narcissistic speeches i've ever heard.
I agree.

Hillary would do anything to win - this is still a positive as against the Republicans. But her actions, or some of them, at least, are just repugnant. She is a woman in the business of running for president, and that's pretty much all there is to her these days. She is not the woman from the early 90s...
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Old 02-21-2008, 01:23 AM   #215
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Hillary would do anything to win - this is still a positive as against the Republicans. But her actions, or some of them, at least, are just repugnant. She is a woman in the business of running for president, and that's pretty much all there is to her these days. She is not the woman from the early 90s...
C'mon Martina, we haven't seen a desperate Obama. He wants to win badly as well. I guess we should pretend he doesn't really want to win, he'll just orate and hope for the best? If he was sludging along, it might become a different spectacle. I think that this charge against Hillary is unfair and disengenious, if I actually knew how to spell it.

-signed, Clinton apologist #4,815,162.342
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Old 02-21-2008, 05:06 AM   #216
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thank you

I have been asking all Obama maniacs in here
to explain to me how BHO can get to 271 electoral votes.

U2dem thinks Virginia will remain Red,
if there is data to support it going Blue for Obama - this is something.
The one part of your argument that I've never understood is the part where people who would have voted for Clinton in those key battleground states vote for McCain instead rather than vote for Obama. I just don't see evidence for Clinton voters going that way. Then again, I suppose it could be a kind of self-fulfilling prophecy where folks like yourself who prefer Clinton become increasingly "alienated" by the Obamas to the point where you're ready to put a Republican back in the Whtie House.

And I feel like a broken record here but. . .

I find the Obamamania annoying at the least and harmful at worst, and shallow no matter what.

But the Obama dismissal due to his charisma is equally shallow. It just SOUNDS deep (no pun intended).
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Old 02-21-2008, 07:37 AM   #217
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But the Obama dismissal due to his charisma is equally shallow.
Agree. I'd even say it's a bit prejudiced. It's not all that different from dismissing a beautiful woman because she must be shallow.
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Old 02-21-2008, 07:42 AM   #218
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C'mon Martina, we haven't seen a desperate Obama. He wants to win badly as well. I guess we should pretend he doesn't really want to win, he'll just orate and hope for the best? If he was sludging along, it might become a different spectacle. I think that this charge against Hillary is unfair and disengenious, if I actually knew how to spell it.

-signed, Clinton apologist #4,815,162.342


The thing that bothers me about her is mostly that I'm disappointed in her. I REALLY liked Hillary in the early 90s. I thought she was very well spoken and she was a woman of principles. It was obvious what was important to her (health care and children), and it is unfortunate that Gingrich et al. essentially destroyed her and publicly humiliated her. Even Bill talks about how health care reform is the one major failure of his administration. I think that fundamentally changed Hillary, but not for the better. She consciously decided that she has to do what it takes to win, and worse yet, almost took on this tone like she is owed the presidency (you can say Obama wants to win as much as she does, but nothing about him tells me that he feels like it's his goddamn turn and ain't nobody stopping him). Since then she's taken positions which have been wrong, but she's taken them in the name of pragmatism. That is fine, and certain people are a fan of that, saying that she did what she had to do to win and ultimately once she is in office, that is better than the alternative. I am not one of those people.

Had I not been such a fan of Hillary 15 years ago, I may support her today. But she is not that woman to me, and the one I see today is desperate, overly willing to compromise, pandering to the right/centre on the wrong issues, and unwilling to admit mistakes (although I cut her some slack on the Iraq thing, I think the poor woman really believes that as a woman, she has to take a right wing position on war).
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Old 02-21-2008, 08:27 AM   #219
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^One thing about the infamous healthcare plan, I have always hear Bill Clinton say (and this was even a few years ago before Hillary ran for president) that the failure is his responsibility and not to blame Hillary. He said she was just doing what he'd asked her to. Granted, that's not the way most of the country perceives it, and I would say most of the country is wrong, but the media and political opponents have always used that against Hillary. I am glad that Bill has always stepped up and taken the blame. From what I've read about said plan, it seems like it could've been workable on a smaller scale, but it was too much too soon. Granted, I was about 5 during this time, and only have a basic knowledge of what the plan was and how it played out, but that's how I've perceived it from things I've read.
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Old 02-21-2008, 10:29 AM   #220
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But the Obama dismissal due to his charisma is equally shallow. It just SOUNDS deep (no pun intended).


yes. exactly.
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Old 02-21-2008, 02:39 PM   #221
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http://www.bostonherald.com/news/opi...77&format=text


When backing Barack feels like joining a cult

By Margery Eagan


I’m an Obama girl and my man throttled Hillary Clinton, again, Tuesday night.

Suddenly, the impossible is real.

Suddenly, I’m nervous. Very nervous, actually.

I’m nervous because an otherwise normal grownup told me yesterday she’s watched the will.i.am (Black Eyed Peas) “Yes We Can” Obama video about 100 times and gets “weepy” every time.

I’m nervous because a longtime political type, normally quite cynical, now waxes rhapsodic about Obama’s “cool.”

“He’s elegant, controlled, the best-dressed candidate ever,” he says. Never a red tie, yellow or bright blue. No, Obama does a subdued lean charcoal gray suit with a gray or silvery tie. Everything muted, measured, fluid. “He floats onto the stage, a bit of the Fred Astaire thing going.”

Fred Astaire?

This same man, 100 percent anti-illegal aliens, fears Obama could pull a Reagan or a JFK on the Mexican border, head down there, chanting, “Tear down this wall!” or even do an “Ich bin ein Tijuana!!!”

He’s with Obama anyway.

I’m nervous because Harvard political genius Elaine Kamarck told me Hillary understands the various messes we’re in far better than Obama.

Suppose Kamarck’s right?

I’m nervous about the “O’Bambi” factor. Will the terrorists move in next door when Obama’s in the White House?

I’m nervous because Michelle Obama, about whom I just wrote a fawning puff piece, now says that until her husband’s stunning ascendancy, she’s never before been proud of America. Huh?

Barack now claims she didn’t mean it. Oh, yes she did. We all know the insufferable, holier-than-thou, Blame-America-First types who lecture the unwashed from the rarefied air of Cambridge and Brookline.

If I wanted lecturing, I’d be with Hillary.

I’m nervous because too many Obama-philes sound like Moonies, or Hare Krishnas, or the Hale-Bopp-Is-Coming-To-Get-Me nuts.

These true believers “Obama-ize” everything. They speak Obama-ese. Knit for Obama. Run for Obama. Gamble - Hold ’Em Barack! - for Obama. They make Obama cakes, underwear, jewelry. They send Valentine cards reading, “I want to Barack your world!”

At campaign rallies people scream, cry, even faint as Obama calmly calls for the EMTs. When supporters pant en masse, “I love you!” (like The Beatles, circa 1964), Barack says, “I love you back” with that deliciously charming, almost cocky smile.

Oh - I’m nervous because it’s all gone to his head and he hasn’t even won yet.

I’m nervous because it’s gone to a lot of other people’s heads as well. Maryland Congressman Elijah Cummings introduced Obama last week in Baltimore and said, “This is not a campaign for president of the United States, this is a movement to change the world.”

“He walks into a room and you want to follow him somewhere, anywhere,” says George Clooney.

“I’ll do whatever he says to do,” says actress Halle Berry. “I’ll collect paper cups off the ground to make his pathway clear.”

I’m nervous because nobody’s quite sure what Obama stands for, even his supporters. (“I can’t wait to see,” said actress/activist Susan Sarandon, declaring full support nonetheless).

I’m nervous because even his biggest fans can’t name Obama’s accomplishments, including Texas state Sen. Kirk Watson, an Obama-man who humiliated himself when MSNBC’s Chris Matthews asked him about five times to name something, anything, Obama’s done. Watson hemmed. Watson hawed. Watson gave up.

I’m nervous because John McCain says Obama’s is “an eloquent but empty call for change” and in the wee, wee hours, a nagging voice whispers, suppose McCain’s right, too? Then what?
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Old 02-21-2008, 02:43 PM   #222
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Margery sounds like a nervous person who can't think for herself.

Max, at least you are consistant.
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Old 02-21-2008, 02:43 PM   #223
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In response to that article: Wow, I haven't heard that "empty" argument 1,000 times already.
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Old 02-21-2008, 03:15 PM   #224
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In response to that article: Wow, I haven't heard that "empty" argument 1,000 times already.
I'm sure these arguments do seem "empty" to the indoctrinated.
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Old 02-21-2008, 03:25 PM   #225
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Margery sounds like a nervous person who can't think for herself.
She's questioning the fawning rhetoric she constantly hears as an Obama supporter. I'd say she's thinking for herself quite well.
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