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Old 09-02-2004, 04:24 PM   #16
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I wasn't linking Bush directly with this. He speaks of the world being a safer place now, and I don't think it is.
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Old 09-02-2004, 04:48 PM   #17
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Because of Bush, the world is safer from terrorists.

Yeah.
YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME! Get a clue! Your hatred for Bush has made all your credibility superficial with that comment.

I pray for these children and their parents throught this horrific ordeal. I for one wouldn't be able to handle it if it were my kids. I pray that any long-term emotional effects they may become because of this ordeal are as minimal as possible.
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Old 09-02-2004, 05:01 PM   #18
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The terrorists released 26 hostages incl. 3 mothers with their babies

but some eyewhittnesses report that the school is mined and some hostages allready have bin killed

German Chancelor Schröder offered putin a "flying hospital" (airplane with hospital inside), but it's unclear if Putin will accept this offer.
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Old 09-03-2004, 08:35 AM   #19
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Bloody end to Russia school siege

Russian troops have stormed the school in North Ossetia where hundreds of children and adults have been held hostage since Wednesday.

Some reports say all the hostages have now been brought out of the school, but there are continuing scenes of chaos.

Heavy gunfire and loud explosions were heard as ambulances rushed scores of casualties to nearby hospitals.

Unconfirmed reports say that at least 10 people have been killed and up to 200 wounded.

1153: Officials say 250 hostages wounded, including 180 children - AP
1150: At least five bodies outside school
1125: Security forces attack house where 13 rebels thought to be hiding - reports
1115: All hostages reported out of school
1030: 158 people reported hospitalised
1005: Russian troops said to be nearly in full control
0958: Special forces enter school
0930: School roof said to have collapsed
0914: 30 hostages escape
0905: Explosions and gunfire heard. Soldiers run to building
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Old 09-03-2004, 09:02 AM   #20
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I saw that on CNN this morning-there are reports that they wouldn't even give the children water

One report said the hostage takers might be dead
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Old 09-03-2004, 10:00 AM   #21
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The Russians, as usual, as they did 2 years ago in the theatre in Moscow, have dealt with the situation with absolute disregard to people's life. They say about 150 children are dead. Officially. Knowing the way their warped minds and propaganda work, it's more like 300 actually. Russian leaders: tzars, communist party leaders, presidents, have always been arrogant and disrespectful towards the rest of the nation. Pampering billionaires who buy foreign football clubs and allowing thousands of kids to live in the sewers under the streets of Moscow or St. Petersburg. Western diplomats, still in awe of Russia, let the former spy go away with any murder. It's not only the terrorists' doing, though it takes a real bastard to hostage children, it's the system there, which hasn't changed at all in the last ten years. Under the thin veneer of glamour lies the misery of millions of people. Forgive me my bitterness, but we've had our share of Russian rule, and besides as a mother and teacher I cannot accept thoughtless waste of life.
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Old 09-03-2004, 10:13 AM   #22
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Eirinn

I'm unsure if they had a choice this time. Some reports say that a large number of hostages try to escape and the terrorists shot at them.
In this situation the army decided to storm the building.

I don't know where you got the number of 150 dead children, i just could read about 10 confirmed dead people and 300 - 400 wounded (200 of them children)

But it's still not over yet - some of the terrorists were able to escape and are somewhere hiding in the town.

So if you have a credible source with more exact numbers i'm curious
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Old 09-03-2004, 10:31 AM   #23
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She's right

At least 100 confirmed dead

http://news.yahoo.com/fc?tmpl=fc&cid...rld&cat=Russia

This is beyond sickening and heartbreaking
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Old 09-03-2004, 10:43 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by Eirinn
The Russians, as usual, as they did 2 years ago in the theatre in Moscow, have dealt with the situation with absolute disregard to people's life.
Actually it looks as though they had no choice in the matter. Current reports suggest that a number of children had tried to escape and were shot at by the hostage takers, so the Russian security services had to shoot back in order to save the lives of those children. At the moment it definitely doesn't look as though the Russian security services intervened by choice, so it's not at all comparable to the theatre seige.


Quote:
It's not only the terrorists' doing, though it takes a real bastard to hostage children, it's the system there, which hasn't changed at all in the last ten years. Under the thin veneer of glamour lies the misery of millions of people. Forgive me my bitterness, but we've had our share of Russian rule, and besides as a mother and teacher I cannot accept thoughtless waste of life.
Wow, I'd love to see people's response if someone had said 9/11, or Madrid wasn't only the terrorists doing.

I don't think anyone would deny that there are many problems with Russia's government, but the blame for this tragedy lies solely with those who thought that the best way to highlight their disagreements with the Russian government was to take hostage hundreds of Russian children.

This entire event is just so horrific. I can't imagine what those children and their families have gone through in the last three days.
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Old 09-03-2004, 10:47 AM   #25
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I've been watching BBC World where they said one of British reporters actually got to the gym for a moment, and he talked about at least a hundred bodies lying on the floor, apparently killed by the earlier explosion. Adding to this the ones who had been carried out earlier by the soldiers, plus those fatally wounded... I dread to think of the final death toll .
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Old 09-03-2004, 11:44 AM   #26
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This is awful. I'm really sad about this stuff.
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Old 09-03-2004, 11:50 AM   #27
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I've heard Russian troops blew up a wall of the gym after which the ceiling collapsed. Make a note kids, if you want to blow up a wall to save the people inside a building, make sure you don't blow up one that supports the ceiling.
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Old 09-03-2004, 12:02 PM   #28
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What a horrific, heart breaking event.
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Old 09-03-2004, 12:22 PM   #29
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I understand what you were saying Eirinn Russia does and always has had a long sad history of the incidental disregard for their own people at times, such as the theater incident a couple years ago, and many times throughout history. As a matter of fact, as soon as this happened a friend of mine who is also into Russian history like me told me he predicted at least half of the hostages would die in whatever blundered attempt Putin sent in. It's like what Dr. Teeth said about the wall. Surely more care could have been taken to ensure the safety of those inside.

But of course, there is no excuse at all for the complete unearthly evil of people who would take a school hostage! What can you do with people who are so cruel, so determined, and so ready to die? You can't 'negotiate' with them. Most of them came in prepared to die and not expecting to make it out and they didn't care how many kids went down too. Shooting as they tried to run, that may be one of the worst things I've ever heard. I don't see any way they could have been dealt with, if you burst in, they're going to set off their belts and mines. If you take one out with a sharpshooter, the others will react with their explosives. There really was no way out that was going to save everybody, but bringing the roof down was a mistake. I'm sure everyone is heartbroken by this and feels just terrible (except the Chechens who are probably sorry they didn't kill more)

The terrorists are never going to achieve their goals this way, only anger everyone. I would not be surprised if Putin uses even harder smackdown on their country now!

Also, while there is absolutely NO EXCUSE for this outrageous, heartless terrorism, Russia is going to have to start doing better on 'homeland security' even if this means 'profiling' every girl in black hoods and robes. All schools and large gatherings are going to have to be more secure. School doors should remain locked unless the person entering can prove they have a good reason to be there. I know no one wants their life disrupted by extra precautions but after these recent incidents I don't think it's paranoia at all!

I still cannot believe such a sad, sick, disturbing thing actually happened I am so sorry for everyone, there's no way to express just how tragic this is.
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Old 09-03-2004, 01:19 PM   #30
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You're absolutely right, U2Kitten, safety and security are of paramount importance, especially when there are huge crowds gathered. And especially where children are concerned. We all have to put up with certain amount of discomfort for the sake of our life and health.
I remember when the Chechen war started, some 10 years ago. Here, in Poland, we strongly supported their struggle for independence, took in thousands of refugees and offered them shelter. And we've been supporting them ever since, as we know very well what it means to be occupied. I know there are millions of Chechens who are as shocked as we are by what happened in the last three days. But they also know that this incident probably buried all their hopes for freedom. From this day on the word 'Chechen' will to many be the synonim of 'a child-hostage taker'. The sympathy of the world will no longer be on their side. I've been watching different news channels most of the day today. There's a Russian channel on my cable, as we have quite a lot of Russians living in our country and across Europe. They just went on with their schedule as if nothing had happened - just a piece of information that the hostages have been freed. Some time later I watched an interview with a journalist who specializes in Eastern affairs in our own news channel. He said that all the world was getting life reports from Ossetia: the whole world except... Russia. They only saw what the people on top allowed to be shown to the public.
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