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Old 01-24-2006, 09:08 AM   #61
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Originally posted by boosterjuice
AB is the land of opportunity. Harper wants Canada to be the nation of opportunity.
Given that our neighbours thought nothing of ravaging a country for "opportunity", I'm curious to know how you think relations with the US will be when they realize just how much "opportunity" there really is in AB now that prices are catching up.

Coulda saved hisself a war, silly President.
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Old 01-24-2006, 09:13 AM   #62
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Well done, all you Conservatives! Enjoy your minority leadership for about 18 months or so!



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Old 01-24-2006, 09:23 AM   #63
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Originally posted by melon
The only reason privatized health care "works" in the eyes of wealthy people is because when over half of your country either isn't covered or can't afford it, then those who can afford it are always at the top of the line. Everyone else can just die, I guess.
Both extremes have the same effect. More people are dying here on waiting lists than anyone wants to acknowledge.

And the US is more than happy to accommodate Canadians who don't have to wait and who don't want to pay the high prices Amercians pay...while Americans die without access.

I just can't believe there isn't a way to harmonize both systems - in both countries.
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Old 01-24-2006, 09:23 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon
This is the kind of conservative victory I like: one where you're outnumbered 2:1 by the leftist "minority."

I'll be interested in seeing what Harper does now that he can't resort to populist bigotry that would appeal only to Western Canadians and London, Ontario.

Melon
I have no idea where you get off with that statement. I am absolutley offended. I just started shaking out of rage.... All three London ridings rejected Harper candidates, as they did last time. Two are liberal and one NDP, with that riding's Liberal losing by less than 1000 votes.

Why your statement is so wrong....
From all Votes cast in the three London ridings

Total Liberal votes = 62574 Total Con votes = 53320

So that alone proves how wrong you are...but even further...

Total votes that went to Lib & Ndp combined = 106220 which is pretty much twice as much as the conservatives you imply we love so much.

Overall, the Cons got 53320 votes here and the total of votes they didn't get = 115085.

I guess that means 115085 people mistakenly marked the wrong candidate while trying to cast their vote for populist bigotry.


Quote:
Originally posted by melon


I'll be interested in seeing what Harper does now that he can't resort to populist bigotry that would appeal only to Western Canadians and London, Ontario.

Melon
With a blanket statement like that have you thought at all about running as a Conservative yourself?
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Old 01-24-2006, 09:28 AM   #65
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Originally posted by boosterjuice


Let's hear your opinion on what should be done with health care then.
Oh, I have many ideas that I don't have time to go into right now, but I would like to say two things:

First, in my experience, our health care system isn't nearly as bad as conservative propaganda would have people believe. This is coming with someone who has direct experience with many aspects of health care via a couple of elderly relatives with many health problems, and who over the past few years have required regular family md and specialist visits, medical tests, and other procedures. The wait times haven't been unduly long, and they've received the care and treatment they've needed. They've also received excellent in-hospital care. So, are there some minor problems and is there some fine-tuning needed? Certainly. But not the complete overhaul that conservatives and the wealthy would have you believe.

Second, privatized health care is just fundamentally wrong, and not at all what our country (or at least my country) is based upon. Why should the spoiled wealthy step ahead of the unwashed masses, when it comes to an appointment, a test, or a procedure? Why should a single mother in a minimum wage job worry and watch her ill child suffer, while someone with dollars to flash around has peace of mind that their child is being cared for? The two-tiered system you imagine will not work. At best, it will result in much lower quality care for those who can't afford the top tier. At worst, it will lead to complete privatization. It certainly won't lead to the utopian scenario you've described.

It's really easy to sit in a comfortable financial postion and dictate that you are owed a more exclusive healthcare system than those less fortunate. Me and many other Canadians? We have empathy for others, and find it morally repugnant that someone with money could potentially have better care than citizens who are less well off.
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Old 01-24-2006, 09:39 AM   #66
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Originally posted by AliEnvy


Both extremes have the same effect. More people are dying here on waiting lists than anyone wants to acknowledge.
Where are all these people dropping dead on waiting lists? I'm just not seeing them, it's not been my experience that waiting lists are that long, and I live in a city that's notoriously underserviced, and in need of doctors.

I know there are individual cases that come to light in the media, but I believe it's overblown. And there are other factors that can account for some cases - statistically, some people ARE going to worsen while waiting for care, even care that takes a normal amount of time.

See, this is what gets me - it's media and conservative fear-mongering that make people believe we need privatized health care, or a two-tiered system. The media makes a big deal out of a few cases, and most people don't have the time or the inclintion to read between the lines and educate themselves, and just accept the myth that our healthcare system is "shot to hell."
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Old 01-24-2006, 10:17 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon
This is the kind of conservative victory I like: one where you're outnumbered 2:1 by the leftist "minority."

I'll be interested in seeing what Harper does now that he can't resort to populist bigotry that would appeal only to Western Canadians and London, Ontario.

Melon
Not all western Canadians, melon.

Also, at least in the part of Saskatchewan where I live, a lot of the support for the Conservatives has more to do with their promises to scrap the gun registry (which doesn't go over very well with farmers/ranchers here) and with the perception that a Conservative gov't would do more for the farming and cattle industries, which are in serious trouble. Since much of their support comes from the West, there is a hope that the Conservatives will address these kinds of issues. So, I think you have to take that into account, rather than assuming that everyone in Western Canada who voted Conservative did so out of support for their "bigotry".

At least, I hope so.
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Old 01-24-2006, 10:31 AM   #68
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Originally posted by boosterjuice


Imj,

Give Klein some credit. Alberta is the most prosperous province. You should be getting your energy rebate cheque by the end of the month. We pay the least amount of tax. Unemployment is virtually gone here. AB is the land of opportunity.
Your oil will run out in 40-50 years. Alberta will suffer a complete economic collapse. Welcome to the third world, you and the Saudis.

Don't be foolish to assume that this "land of opportunity" nonsense will hold.

Maybe for the next few decades.

Then you'll experience the same collapse the Maritimes are.

Is it in Alberta's best interest to puff up their chest?

Ask again in 50 years, and you'll be singing a different tune.
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Old 01-24-2006, 11:03 AM   #69
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Originally posted by VintagePunk
most people don't have the time or the inclintion to read between the lines and educate themselves
You're right, go educate yourself if you have the time and inclination (and the ability to read between the lines). Start with this:

http://www.fraserinstitute.ca/shared...sNav=pb&id=801
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Old 01-24-2006, 11:05 AM   #70
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a conservative government scares the crap out of me (even tho it is only a minority). a privatised health care system is something i know that i can't afford and i'm defiantely not the poorest person around. i can't imagine someone with children who can't afford to go to the hospital when their kids fall ill cause if they do they won't be able to pay rent or put food on the table next month.

and if his position on same sex marriage and pro choice are true to what was mentioned during the election then i can't even try to be suppotive of a government who wants to move backwards from all the progress that has been made regarding these issues.

i just suggest to mr harper not to be too cocky about his win because there are more against you the with you and do anything too drastic and you'll be back on the campagne trail before you know it.
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Old 01-24-2006, 11:45 AM   #71
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Originally posted by snowbunny00774
I have no idea where you get off with that statement. I am absolutley offended. I just started shaking out of rage.... All three London ridings rejected Harper candidates, as they did last time. Two are liberal and one NDP, with that riding's Liberal losing by less than 1000 votes.
First off, now that I look back at what I wrote, I understand why you'd be offended. It was actually meant to be a partly tongue-and-cheek comment that I realize that nobody here would understand overtly. Most of my Canadian friends are from London (but most have moved to Toronto), and I normally visit there a handful of times a year. Very neat and clean compared to what I'm used to here.

However, their opinion of London is that of a rather socially conservative place. I'm sure that the shit spouting from the now former MP, Pat O'Brien, didn't help their opinions of London either.

I do apologize if you took that personally. If you asked me the opinion of where I'm living, I'd call it a reliably Democratic region that's still very socially conservative. So, really, I readily admit that where I'm living is little different than the "London archetype" that I'm accustomed to.

Melon
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Old 01-24-2006, 11:45 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally posted by Shaliz


Not all western Canadians, melon.

Also, at least in the part of Saskatchewan where I live, a lot of the support for the Conservatives has more to do with their promises to scrap the gun registry (which doesn't go over very well with farmers/ranchers here) and with the perception that a Conservative gov't would do more for the farming and cattle industries, which are in serious trouble. Since much of their support comes from the West, there is a hope that the Conservatives will address these kinds of issues. So, I think you have to take that into account, rather than assuming that everyone in Western Canada who voted Conservative did so out of support for their "bigotry".

At least, I hope so.
Yep, I`m originally from Saskatchewan and in fact, at its core Saskatchewan is definitely left of centre. In fact, it was the first province in all of North America to elect a "socialist" government.

Also, it`s the home of health care.

I could go on but my boss (Stockwell Day?) might have a go at me...
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Old 01-24-2006, 12:34 PM   #73
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Well all of you who are bitching think you can do a better job than Harper, then you run next time.
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Old 01-24-2006, 12:35 PM   #74
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Bitching? This is nothing compared to the day after Bush's second victory.....
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Old 01-24-2006, 12:38 PM   #75
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LOL true. Citizens of San Francisco were so pissed!
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