The Conservative Victory Celebration thread!!!!!!!!!!

[GibsonGirl]

Yes, because they're all rich, spoiled white Christian males with opportunity handed to them on a silver platter, family connections in politics and tons of money they didn't earn to throw around.

If that's not the least constructive post on this thread I don't know what is.

Well said. The whole "If you think you can run Country Y better than Person X, then go do it" argument is so old and tired.

 

[dandy]

love the new avatar, GG.

well, perhaps love isn't quite the right word.

 

[VintagePunk]

So does that mean you dismiss the implications of its findings as propoganda? Whatever.

Considering that they have a clear agenda, skew stats, and paint their findings in absolutely the worst light possible in order to create fear and paranoia to further their cause? Then yeah, dismissing them is exactly what I do. Unapologetically so.

 

[nbcrusader]

So does that mean you dismiss the implications of its findings as propoganda? Whatever.

(that is short hand for "I don't want to discuss the issue")

 

[Justin24]

Well said. The whole "If you think you can run Country Y better than Person X, then go do it" argument is so old and tired.

Well so is "Oh shit another conservative running the country now. Fucking shit, bitch, fuck, I "Hate" conservatives cause they ruin everything and Liberal Democrates are better and know how to run things and never cause problems."

 

[VintagePunk]

(that is short hand for "I don't want to discuss the issue")

I think it's actually short for "she didn't think I would know the background/agenda of the Frasier Institute."

 

[GibsonGirl]

Well so is "Oh shit another conservative running the country now. Fucking shit, bitch, fuck, I "Hate" conservatives cause they ruin everything and Liberal Democrates are better and know how to run things and never cause problems."

Interestingly enough, I never said that once in this thread.

 

[anitram]

Interestingly enough, I never said that once in this thread.

Please do not get in the way of Justin's strawman argument.

 

[Justin24]

I am not saying you did, but the first few post people were roasting the original threader of this topic, for saying how finally after 13 years there is a conservative government.

 

[AliEnvy]

I think it's actually short for "she didn't think I would know the background/agenda of the Frasier Institute."

That's rather presumptuous. As is your assertion that people aren't dying on waiting lists because you don't see them.

I'm not supportive of a completely private system or even a 2-tiered system per se. But we're fooling ourselves if we think we have a fully-functioning public one right now. Plenty of services are already private and the provinces are off-loading more all the time.

And how are we going to afford what we have now going forward?

 

[lmjhitman]

Well so is "Oh shit another conservative running the country now. Fucking shit, bitch, fuck, I "Hate" conservatives cause they ruin everything and Liberal Democrates are better and know how to run things and never cause problems."

unless you have an INFORMED opinion, maybe you'd do well to keep your thoughts to yourself.

because you're really embarassing yourself here.

taking a few posts out of context and then shooting your mouth off hardly contributes to the discussion. you openly admitted that you have no idea what we're even talking about.

i find it amazing that you complain about being belittled when you give people more than enough ammunition to do so.

 

[VintagePunk]

That's rather presumptuous. As is your assertion that people aren't dying on waiting lists because you don't see them.

I'm not supportive of a completely private system or even a 2-tiered system per se. But we're fooling ourselves if we think we have a fully-functioning public one right now. Plenty of services are already private and the provinces are off-loading more all the time.

And how are we going to afford what we have now going forward?

1) Presumptuous? Note the wink.

2) I didn't say it's not happening. I said that I don't believe it's happening to the degree that some of the media and fear-mongers would have us believe. I also said that in my experience, the system is working, for the most part. Note the "my experience" part of that statement. I find it hard to believe (and yes, this is a judgement call) that my experiences have been unique.

3) I also stated in an earlier post that the system certainly isn't perfect, and could use some fixing. However, I don't believe it's at a critical state where it needs to be dismantled and privatized, or turned into a two-tier system that will benefit the well-off. Further, some biased sources, like the Frasier Institute, would have us believe that it IS at a critical state, in order to further their agenda, which is clearly privatization.

4) Do I have all the answers? Hardly. But then again, neither do those who have studied the issue full time for years.

If the Liberals had stayed in power, with their throwing money around all willy-nilly, perhaps I could have applied for a government grant to study the issue full time. Then I could have come up with more definitive answers.

 

[dandy]

dear Justin24,

please read more and post less.

thanks,

a justifiably upset canadian

 

[Irvine511]

well, maybe you should take your own advice, and leave this discussion to people who might be a bit more knowledgable about the topic.

it doesn't matter if you don't have lots of knowlege just as long as you can get really angry about the few things you do know.

 

[nbcrusader]

it doesn't matter if you don't have lots of knowlege just as long as you can get really angry about the few things you do know.

Or about the results of an election...

 

[Irvine511]

Or about the results of an election...

yup.

i don't know much about Canadian politics, so i'm keeping my mouth shut. i am learning a lot, though. and i love the distinctions between opinions (which are like assholes, remember ...) and *informed* opinions.

though i will say that this thread has totally shot to hell my stereotype of Canadians being exceptionally polite and considerate individuals.

 

[trevster2k]

I'm not afraid of Harper, I don't like the guy, his personal history is filled with questionable statements and remarks. And remarkably, despite the bungling of the Liberal party over a 13 year record in office, and a horrible campaign, the best he could get was a minority government. That also shows poor leadership, but it also reflects the concern Canadians have for the social agenda pushed by the Alliance party in the recent past. Remember how Canadians punished the Progressive Conservatives back in the 90's, now that's a statement.

In case you forgot,

The Progressive Conservatives and the Conservatives are not the same parties, BTW. I voted for the PCs in the '88 election but voted Liberal in '93. From 169 seats to 2 seats, ouch, and during this period the seeds were planted for the Bloc Quebecois party, the Reform who begat the Allliance who begat the Conservatives. OMG, it's our fault, we should have left the PC's with a few seats so they could recover. D'oh!!!

 

[Angela Harlem]

I Calluna.

Canada needs a hug.

 

[Calluna]

Thanks, angie.

 

[angelordevil]

...his personal history is filled with questionable statements and remarks. And remarkably, despite the bungling of the Liberal party over a 13 year record in office, and a horrible campaign, the best he could get was a minority government.

Funny, this could also describe Paul Martin of two years ago!

Some good things about the result: Harper has fewer seats than Martin’s last minority, The Liberals are forced now to actually be liberal, and the NDP are much stronger than in 2004. Harper doesn’t have a strong mandate, and all parties have been given a huge message: honesty and integrity matter.

What a statement it is that Canadians were willing to sacrifice their traditional middle-of-the-political spectrum ways in their desire to grab some truth.

 

[boosterjuice]

though i will say that this thread has totally shot to hell my stereotype of Canadians being exceptionally polite and considerate individuals.

Hey Irvine!

I echo your sentiments. But please don't let this thread give you a poor perception of the wonderful people in Canada. Some of my best friends have completely opposite political viewpoints to me. However, we are always able to discuss politics in an open and respectful manner. I think you can really learn a lot about yourself if you spend time with people who have different viewpoints. It helps to challenge your values and even helps solidify your beliefs. Canada is a diverse and mosaic nation.

Besides, most of disrespectful comments in this thread were from non-Canadians.

 

[angelordevil]

Hey Irvine!

I echo your sentiments. But please don't let this thread give you a poor perception of the wonderful people in Canada....Canada is a diverse and mosaic nation.

mosaic...I love that word. Our coffee is pretty good, too. Great coffee can define a nation.

 

[bonoman]

Geez, this thread has turned into something great.

Some knowledgeable people disscussing real Canadian issues with passion instead of retoric.

Something I would really like to know from non-albertans. Have you ever been concerned with the notion that the west, and it seems more and more albertans, feel left out of the political process and the finincial well being of this country?

I really dont know, with the exception of Alberta, that the west is THAT conservative. If we take BC for example, we can take from that BCers see a different choice then the conservatives. The conservatives lost 4 seats in BC. Sask isnt as conservative as everyone likes to believe, they elect NDP prov. govts and like lady said they are the home place of health care and socialism in Canada, not to mention my hero Tommy Douglas!

I feel as an Albertan left out of something but I dont know what. Is it that we arent on the national news every night? Or out wealth isnt converted in power? Is the west as a whole written off as being wholley conservative when that in fact is not the case. There are Liberals and NDPers in the west but does our election system hamper the progress of a more proportional view of our political leanings.

So, to non-albertans, are we that different to you?

And to albertans, are they that different then us?

 

[diamond]

Hey, I'm not trying to rub anything in anyone's face. I hope my comments don't come across like that. However, I'm excited about the development in my country tonight and I was hoping to find like-minded individuals who share a similar view. If anything, I feel as though I have been a victim of harsh comments rather than a contributor.

Yes, you have been, but that's how it is here on Interland.

Congrats boostie.

Canada has come to her senses.

db9

 

[anitram]

Canada has come to her senses.

db9

Yes.

64% of the voters of this nation voted for a moderate-left party, a far-left party or a far-far-left party.

Proud day indeed. Thanks for your congratulations.

 

[Irvine511]

Hey Irvine!

I echo your sentiments. But please don't let this thread give you a poor perception of the wonderful people in Canada. Some of my best friends have completely opposite political viewpoints to me. However, we are always able to discuss politics in an open and respectful manner. I think you can really learn a lot about yourself if you spend time with people who have different viewpoints. It helps to challenge your values and even helps solidify your beliefs. Canada is a diverse and mosaic nation.

Besides, most of disrespectful comments in this thread were from non-Canadians.

oh don't worry ... i've been to Canada several times, one of my best friend's mother is Canadian, and, heck, some of my best friends are Canadian.

i'd live in Canada in a heartbeat, and i generally admire how progressive much of your legislation has been, especially in how your society regards gay people as real, live human beings with thoughts and feelings.

so to Canada.



(and all you progressive Canadians out there: now you know how we progressive Americans feel ... like you, we did our best, but sometimes that's just not enough ...)

 

[anitram]

(and all you progressive Canadians out there: now you know how we progressive Americans feel ... like you, we did our best, but sometimes that's just not enough ...)

I've seen this a lot and you know actually it's really not true at all.

Our Liberal Party was brought down by scandal and corruption. They ran the worst political campaign in the history of campaigns. And even so they have over 100 seats in the Parliament. Additionally all the leftist parties have more seats than the Conservatives. 64% of our country voted for a leftist party. And we are not locked into a 4 year term like you guys. The non-confidence vote will boot Harper out in 18-24 months. And in the meantime he can't govern at all without major concessions because he doesn't have votes to pass a single bill at all.

The Liberals needed this so they can elect a new leader. The NDP picked up a significant number of votes. And after the Libs get a new leader, Harper's first step will result in a dissolution of Parliament.

Not to mention, half of the Conservative caucus is still more liberal than Hillary Clinton and Ted Kennedy for heaven's sake, so it's not like we're in some kind of desperate state here.

 

[Irvine511]

Our Liberal Party was brought down by scandal and corruption.

Gore lost because someone else got a blow job.


[q]They ran the worst political campaign in the history of campaigns.[/q]

worse than Kerry?

[q]And even so they have over 100 seats in the Parliament.[/q]

while Republicans have a majority in both houses, it's still pretty evenly split -- 232 Republicans, 201 Democrats in the House.

[q]Additionally all the leftist parties have more seats than the Conservatives.[/q]

difference between a coalition government and a 2 party system.

[q]64% of our country voted for a leftist party. And we are not locked into a 4 year term like you guys. The non-confidence vote will boot Harper out in 18-24 months. And in the meantime he can't govern at all without major concessions because he doesn't have votes to pass a single bill at all.

The Liberals needed this so they can elect a new leader. The NDP picked up a significant number of votes. And after the Libs get a new leader, Harper's first step will result in a dissolution of Parliament.[/q]

i wish you luck.

Not to mention, half of the Conservative caucus is still more liberal than Hillary Clinton and Ted Kennedy for heaven's sake, so it's not like we're in some kind of desperate state here.

i never implied as much.

 

[anitram]

G

So, to non-albertans, are we that different to you?

It's an interesting question.

The bottom line is that if you asked Canadians what values define Canada, and how they feel about their nation, and if you asked people abroad what their perception of Canada is, the overwhelming response would be to describe the Canada of Tommy Douglas, Pearson and Trudeau. From the nationalized health care, to the peacekeeping missions, to a mid-Atlantic foreign policy to the Charter of Rights, a majority of people would agree and some of the only dissenters would be Albertans. And by this I don't mean every person there, but the current leadership and the Conservatives/Reformists out there. Their vision of Canada is not the vision the rest of the country or the world has. And that is the cold, hard truth that Alberta seems unable to grasp.

Whenever you hear a politician yammering on about taking away the rights of gay people to marry, or comparing abortion to executions or the holocaust or blaming immigrant populations for not voting for them, 9 times out of 10 you can bet it's a Conservative MP from Alberta. And that does not jive with the rest of Canada and goes over like a lead balloon in a country which is socially liberal. Alberta's politicians sound either bigotted or bellicose, and for all their whining about how they are excluded in the political process, they themselves publicly shit all over the Atlantic provinces and if they could rid themselves of Ontario and 40% of the people of this country and their votes they would in a heartbeat. So in addition to sounding bellicose, they are also hypocritical. Their offensive "culture of defeat" insults directed at the Maritimes is a perfect example of how they have no intention to unite this country at all, what they want is to govern the people with their Albertan policy, and the people of the rest of this country don't want that. Plain and simple.

Mulroney once said that the Conservatives in Canada have a major problem: that the Canadian people don't actually want a Conservative party at all. What they want are two mainstream liberal parties so that when one gets obnoxious, we don't feel badly voting for the other. I am not sure how accurate that is. But I really believe that Alberta and the West are two different things, because this sort of bellicose Texas-style politicking is absent in say, BC and Saskatchewan. So I am not sure how people in Alberta feel, but I can tell with 100% certainty that their (not all of them obviously) social views are not congruent with the social views of the rest of this country.

If Alberta's politicians want to run on a platform of fiscal responsibility and old PC-style economics, that is one thing. But as long as they run on their ideas of morality, it's game over.

 

[anitram]

Gore lost because someone else got a blow job.

Well to be fair, Gore should have won his own state and I don't think there is any excusing this.

But apart from that I thought Gore lost because the Supreme Court felt Bush would be irreparably harmed by heaven forbid counting the rest of the votes, lol.

worse than Kerry?

Oh my God, Kerry had a perfect campaign compared to this! They didn't have a single good day, and trailed in the polls by as much as 18% at one point. And in the middle of the campaign, another RCMP investigation was hinted at. Total collapse, worst thing I've ever seen and they were relegated to page 5 of every paper while Harper's mug was on the front cover.

while Republicans have a majority in both houses, it's still pretty evenly split -- 232 Republicans, 201 Democrats in the House.

True, but consider that our leftist parties outnumber the Conservatives by about a factor of 2:1 and then you realize what a small segment of our population actually supports them. If the NDP and Liberals were one party, the Conservatives would be up a shit creek.

difference between a coalition government and a 2 party system.

Actually there is no such thing as a coalition government in Canada. It cannot exist because the Governor General offers a parliamentary rule to the party with the most votes, and in this case it is a minority. The other parties do not form a coalition government, instead they have the option of a non-confidence vote to bring down the minority whenever they please. But they cannot rule as a coalition.