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Old 01-24-2006, 01:35 AM   #46
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Your prosperity in Alberta has nothing to do with Ralph Klein, you gotta 60$ plus oil prices.

You must be fairly affluent booster to be so willing to pay for health insurance or private medical care. Most Canadians don't have this luxury. This point of view is dangerous in that it will diminish the ability of millions of people in Canada to afford health care without sacrificing other aspects of their life.

Alberta's policies are efficient in a superhot, almost too hot economy, they don't work in economies which can't just depend on the high value of a natural resource.
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Old 01-24-2006, 01:42 AM   #47
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Old 01-24-2006, 01:42 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally posted by trevster2k
Your prosperity in Alberta has nothing to do with Ralph Klein, you gotta 60$ plus oil prices.

You must be fairly affluent booster to be so willing to pay for health insurance or private medical care. Most Canadians don't have this luxury. This point of view is dangerous in that it will diminish the ability of millions of people in Canada to afford health care without sacrificing other aspects of their life.

Alberta's policies are efficient in a superhot, almost too hot economy, they don't work in economies which can't just depend on the high value of a natural resource.
Thanks for not letting me down. I was waiting patiently for the "oil" counter-argument.

IMO, private health care would reduce the current demand on the public system by allowing those who choose to pay for privatized care to do so. I know there are many who cannot afford privatized health care. I feel bad for them because they are facing incredibily long waiting lists now. Privatized health care would be in their best interest because it would remove a lot of the excess from the system.
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Old 01-24-2006, 01:43 AM   #49
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Then don't participate in it.
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Old 01-24-2006, 01:55 AM   #50
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Originally posted by Se7en


ummm yeah ok.

i don't know if you knew this or not but reagan single handedly defeated the soviets while wearing a cowboy hat.
But everyone knows Nancy was wearing the holster.
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Old 01-24-2006, 01:59 AM   #51
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Originally posted by boosterjuice
Privatized health care would be in their best interest because it would remove a lot of the excess from the system.
Yeah, because that's how it would play out. Probably one of the most short-sighted, uninformed statements I've ever read.

Here's hoping for a fast Conservative screw-up.
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Old 01-24-2006, 02:03 AM   #52
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Yeah, because that's how it would play out. Probably one of the most short-sighted, uninformed statements I've ever read.

Here's hoping for a fast Conservative screw-up.
Let's hear your opinion on what should be done with health care then.
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Old 01-24-2006, 02:03 AM   #53
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Originally posted by boosterjuice
Unemployment is virtually gone here. AB is the land of opportunity.
you seem to have quite a rosy picture of how things are going in this province, don't you?

i'm underemployed to say the least - especially when you consider the time and money i've put into my education. and ESPECIALLY when you consider that my field of expertise, education, is under provincial jurisdiction. do you know how many university graduates are working in bookstores and coffeeshops for minimum wage? we can't all run out into the oil patch, you know.

Quote:
Heaven forbid if you have to actually pay for something. It's won't the end of the world to have private health care. I just like idea that if I need surgery, I won't have to wait a year to get it done.
i can't believe you had the gall to even type that. you must be sitting pretty to have that attitude. seriously. you just epitomized the typical alberta conservative who can't see past the end of his own cowboy hat.

unreal.
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Old 01-24-2006, 02:14 AM   #54
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Klien, what a man.

About as lucky as the boys who won the 54 milion!

When us, as albertans, start relizing that its not us and our gov't that has caused the economic boom we have, but the fortunate place in which we lay our heads, we will become a much more inclusive prov.

Do you honestly think that if an NDP or Liberal gov't was running Alberta that we wouldnt be in such good shape?

We have a 8 billion dollar surplus, big deal. We should be running 12-15 even 20 billion dollar surpluses!

How much did the oilsands pay in royalies last year? Oh thats right, 550 million! FUCK ALL. How much did gas pay in royalties last year, yeah, 7.4 billion. And you sit there and try to pawn off an old currupt, yes currupt, govt as the saviours of Canada! Bulshit!

This prov. bitches about how the liberals always get in, no matter what. Though when there are scandals in Alberta, such as the McMurray land deal, the AISH payments, Mad Cow money to big meat packing plants, HWY 63 to McMurray, excessivley low royalty charges, insurance companies consulting on health care, you sit back and say: "duh, we are gettin' 400 bucks" Fuck that, your as bad as blind liberals!
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Old 01-24-2006, 02:18 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally posted by lmjhitman

you seem to have quite a rosy picture of how things are going in this province, don't you?

i'm underemployed to say the least - especially when you consider the time and money i've put into my education. and ESPECIALLY when you consider that my field of expertise, education, is under provincial jurisdiction. do you know how many university graduates are working in bookstores and coffeeshops for minimum wage? we can't all run out into the oil patch, you know.


i can't believe you had the gall to even type that. you must be sitting pretty to have that attitude. seriously. you just epitomized the typical alberta conservative who can't see past the end of his own cowboy hat.

unreal.
Imj,

I understand your employment frustrations as my wife also had hopes of acquiring a teaching job but put has put her degree on hold due to the excess of teachers in this province. But I do have a very Rosy picture of our province. Many Albertans take it for granted. I like Alberta because there rewards for those who take risks. My suggestion to you is that you take a risk. Don't move up to Fort MAc or anything like that! MAybe try to find creative ways to make $ of your talents/education (I'm not suggesting that you haven't already). Oil Safety education or something to that effect. There is tonnes of money out there for those that want it.
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Old 01-24-2006, 02:31 AM   #56
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Well, as much as it hurts to say... Congratulations Stephen.

Quote:
Originally posted by boosterjuice
Give Klein some credit. Alberta is the most prosperous province.
I did post on this topic in the 218 Reasons Not to Vote Liberal thread, and it did not garner any response, but I will persist.

The ascendency of Klein in Alberta is tied with Oil, and that is indisputable. While he was mayor of Calgary a few decades back, he introduced measures that ensured downtown transportation infrastructure would not interfere with business (particularly oil, since at the time it was the only sector that showed significant growth). And while this seemed like a good idea at the time, the arrangement of roads, trains, and the stagnancy of oil institutions led to a proliferation of suburban residence that is now nearly unrivaled by any other city. For every job created in the oil patch, seven periphery jobs were created in the late 70's. Developers began to purchase plots and provide accommodation for the growing industry strain, and the city ballooned to the footprint of a behemoth (comparable to New York and other metropolitan centres, with a fraction of the population). Suburban sprawl, in North America as a whole, then sparked more growth in the oil industry, as commuters needed to travel large distances in order to gain access to the poorly planned downtown core. Prosperity in oil was definitely encouraged by Klein's stance on industry, but the future economy of the province was put in jeopardy by the inefficient and short-sighted organization of people and dwellings. Now we are having to put limitations on development permits in Calgary (by adding a municipal 3500 dollar levee) because the low density, high traffic city that Klein built is completely unsustainable.

A burgeoning oil economy is the case on the provincial scale as well, seeing as the only industry that has seen re-investment from Klein, in a significant proportion, is Black Gold. Tourism, sports, and natural amenities (like Jasper National Park and the ski resorts) are only secondary industries that would starve without the prosperity of Oil. Klein has made cuts on education and infrastructure to an effect that the quality of life for new citizens (and old) will continue to decrease, as cities expand and demand for peripheral services increase. More people in Calgary will be forced to live far away from where they work (as downtown real estate is at its all-time high), and they will be forced to spend more on basic social necessities (like transport and energy) in order to compensate for both the financial and civic planning inadequacies of the Klein government.

Indeed, things look great now... but the legacy of the Conservative reign will be very bleak if trends continue and our resources are mismanaged in the pursuit of an unsustainable goal: putting faith in a depleting commodity.

Considering Klein is one of the major Conservative precedents for Oil and energy management, my optimism for growth in a Conservative Canada in other economic sectors for the long-term is quite small. And my criticisms thus far have been irrespective of the consummate moral legislation that the Conservatives bring forward during every election term that drag out tax paying dollars pursuing scapegoatism. It is likely that Stephen Harper will appoint Western Conservative Senators, and introduce legislation that favours the growth of Western industry, and the persistence of an upper-middle-class lifestyle that is a completely irresponsible waste of energy and service.

What the Liberals did with money mismanagement will be nothing compared to what will happen if the projections of the Conservative philosophy of economy are applied to Canada at full-scale. It seems the only human rights the Conservatives care about are those of Oil Executives.

This is coming from the son of an Oil Executive.






...

And boosterjuice, I would like to know how this logic follows...

Quote:
Originally posted by boosterjuice
Many Canadians feel the need "lock up their uterus' ". If the Conservatives can actually show Canadians that they care more about fiscal responsibility/lower taxes, I think most Canadians might start to feel safe about their uterus and vote conservative.
Management of money and fiscal accountability is only one aspect of the political sphere, but how does a focus on deregulation imply that the Conservatives will not address their philosophies on Canadian lifestyles? I would like to hear how economy even becomes a factor in this instance.
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Old 01-24-2006, 04:36 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally posted by cujo
Well, as much as it hurts to say... Congratulations Stephen.



I did post on this topic in the 218 Reasons Not to Vote Liberal thread, and it did not garner any response, but I will persist.

The ascendency of Klein in Alberta is tied with Oil, and that is indisputable. While he was mayor of Calgary a few decades back, he introduced measures that ensured downtown transportation infrastructure would not interfere with business (particularly oil, since at the time it was the only sector that showed significant growth). And while this seemed like a good idea at the time, the arrangement of roads, trains, and the stagnancy of oil institutions led to a proliferation of suburban residence that is now nearly unrivaled by any other city. For every job created in the oil patch, seven periphery jobs were created in the late 70's. Developers began to purchase plots and provide accommodation for the growing industry strain, and the city ballooned to the footprint of a behemoth (comparable to New York and other metropolitan centres, with a fraction of the population). Suburban sprawl, in North America as a whole, then sparked more growth in the oil industry, as commuters needed to travel large distances in order to gain access to the poorly planned downtown core. Prosperity in oil was definitely encouraged by Klein's stance on industry, but the future economy of the province was put in jeopardy by the inefficient and short-sighted organization of people and dwellings. Now we are having to put limitations on development permits in Calgary (by adding a municipal 3500 dollar levee) because the low density, high traffic city that Klein built is completely unsustainable.

A burgeoning oil economy is the case on the provincial scale as well, seeing as the only industry that has seen re-investment from Klein, in a significant proportion, is Black Gold. Tourism, sports, and natural amenities (like Jasper National Park and the ski resorts) are only secondary industries that would starve without the prosperity of Oil. Klein has made cuts on education and infrastructure to an effect that the quality of life for new citizens (and old) will continue to decrease, as cities expand and demand for peripheral services increase. More people in Calgary will be forced to live far away from where they work (as downtown real estate is at its all-time high), and they will be forced to spend more on basic social necessities (like transport and energy) in order to compensate for both the financial and civic planning inadequacies of the Klein government.

Indeed, things look great now... but the legacy of the Conservative reign will be very bleak if trends continue and our resources are mismanaged in the pursuit of an unsustainable goal: putting faith in a depleting commodity.

Considering Klein is one of the major Conservative precedents for Oil and energy management, my optimism for growth in a Conservative Canada in other economic sectors for the long-term is quite small. And my criticisms thus far have been irrespective of the consummate moral legislation that the Conservatives bring forward during every election term that drag out tax paying dollars pursuing scapegoatism. It is likely that Stephen Harper will appoint Western Conservative Senators, and introduce legislation that favours the growth of Western industry, and the persistence of an upper-middle-class lifestyle that is a completely irresponsible waste of energy and service.

What the Liberals did with money mismanagement will be nothing compared to what will happen if the projections of the Conservative philosophy of economy are applied to Canada at full-scale. It seems the only human rights the Conservatives care about are those of Oil Executives.

This is coming from the son of an Oil Executive.






...

And boosterjuice, I would like to know how this logic follows...



Management of money and fiscal accountability is only one aspect of the political sphere, but how does a focus on deregulation imply that the Conservatives will not address their philosophies on Canadian lifestyles? I would like to hear how economy even becomes a factor in this instance.
Hey Cujo,

Thanks for the very in-depth analysis on the issues without resorting to passionate/critical conjecture. I apologize for not responding to your well-researched comments in the other thread. I'll admit, the task of responding to the host of issues you brought forth seemed daunting at the time.

I agree with in that Klien has benefited greatly from the oil boom in our province. Poor city infastructure management is a by-product of rapid growth. Unfortunately, cities/provinces are unable to accurately predict growth which leads the inefficiencies that you are referring to. Whether this growth occurs in a oil boom or a manufacturing boom, the result is the same. Cities/provinces are unable to choose a steady rate of sustainable growth as it is something that is more cyclical. I think the city of Calgary is making significant improvements to combat this problem. We are better off to accept the growth at its current high level rather than attempt to curb it as this could have a negative market effect.

Alberta's growth is going beyond the oil boom. By sustaining lower corporate tax rates, the Klien government has been hedging itself for the future. The lower corporate tax rates are making Alberta look like the province of choice for even the non-oil business. Case in point, SunLife financial recently developed major corporate centre in southern Alberta. And not to mention that by keeping personal tax rates low, Alberta is noticing an influx of people from other provinces. Yes, Alberta's economy would take a negative turn in the unlikely drop of oil prices. But with the hedging that Klien has done, poor city planning aside, Alberta is poised to withstand possible obstacles.

I'm hoping that Stephen Harper will appoint a broad range of individuals into Cabinet. It would be in the party's best interest to pick cabinet ministers based on region. I doubt that Harper will select a cabinet with the primary benefit aimed at Alberta. I want our country unified. Harper will successfully unify the country by focusing on economic conservative issues rather than social issues.


As far as the logic of my "uterus" comments go; An earlier poster wanted to lock up her uterus in the wake of the Conservative victory. I'm guessing for fear that Harper would attempt to criminalize abortion. My view is that many Canadians unfairly dismiss the Conservative party because social scare tactics that have been employed successfully by the Liberals throughout the years.
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Old 01-24-2006, 08:13 AM   #58
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This is the kind of conservative victory I like: one where you're outnumbered 2:1 by the leftist "minority."

I'll be interested in seeing what Harper does now that he can't resort to populist bigotry that would appeal only to Western Canadians and London, Ontario.

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Old 01-24-2006, 08:22 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally posted by boosterjuice
IMO, private health care would reduce the current demand on the public system by allowing those who choose to pay for privatized care to do so. I know there are many who cannot afford privatized health care. I feel bad for them because they are facing incredibily long waiting lists now. Privatized health care would be in their best interest because it would remove a lot of the excess from the system.
Coming from a country with private health care, you should know our system is on the brink of collapse. No company wants to pay for it, no individual can afford it, and the biggest corporate providers of health care in America, the automakers, have been expanding in Canada, solely because of Canada's national healthcare.

The only reason privatized health care "works" in the eyes of wealthy people is because when over half of your country either isn't covered or can't afford it, then those who can afford it are always at the top of the line. Everyone else can just die, I guess.

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Old 01-24-2006, 08:33 AM   #60
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Harper will prove to be the devil he is hiding right now...and within 2 years...people will be crooning the fact they actually voted for him!
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